Posted on 11/12/2007 3:53:44 PM PST by mdittmar
UFOs may be fodder for comedians and science fiction but there was no joking Monday when a group of pilots and officials demanded the US government reopen an investigation into unidentified flying objects.
The 19 former pilots and government officials, who say they have seen UFOs themselves or been involved in probes of strange flying objects, told reporters their questions can no longer be dismissed more than 30 years after the US case was closed.
"We want the US government to stop perpetuating the myth that all UFOs can be explained away in down-to-earth, conventional terms," said Fife Symington, former governor of Arizona and air force pilot who says he saw a UFO himself in 1997.
"Instead our country needs to reopen its official investigation that it shut down in 1969," Symington told a news conference.
Symington read an appeal on behalf of the group of who came to Washington to recount their sightings of UFOs.
"We believe that for reasons of both national security and flight safety, every country should make an effort to identify any object in its airspace," the statement said.
The group included a retired pilot from Air France who said he saw an enormous flying disc during a flight from Nice to London in 1994, an Iranian pilot who tried in vain to fire on a UFO in 1976 and a former US official from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) who claims a probe into a UFO seen over Alaska in 1987 was squelched.
"'Who believes in UFOs?' is the kind of attitude of the FAA all the time," Symington said.
"However, when I asked the CIA person: 'What do you think it was,' he responded 'a UFO.'"
When Symington suggested the government tell Americans about a UFO, the CIA official allegedly told him: "'No way, if we were to tell the American public there are UFOs they would panic.'"
The subject of UFOs came up in a recent debate among presidential candidates, with Democrat Dennis Kucinich saying he saw a UFO.
Skeptics say UFO sightings are merely aircraft or meteors re-entering the Earth's atmosphere.
Thanks for the ping!
Thanks.
DAVE, PLEASE ADD
freedomson
to the ping list.
NOTE to potential members and any others needing to ponder, we police our own ping list. It may be a small matter of no great consequence . . . we certainly don’t have banning-from-FR powers . . . but folks begging to be off the ping list by various troublesome actions and attitudes—as well as merely asking to be off—can be off in a flash. And such decisions are non-negotiable.
It’s not a bad site. Sometimes has alternative real news before even FR does.
But it’s chock full of liberals in the UK and Australia. It was founded in the UK.
So, in a way, it’s kind of a huge mission field for FREEPERS if they care to bother. It’s the largest site of it’s kind—like FR is of Conservatives.
Thanks for the foo-fighter link. Interesting!
***You’re welcome. I see that one of my favorite Freepers has been pinged to this thread as well, and I would welcome Alamo Girl’s comments on my approach to this subject. I tried to interest Quix in the “inductive triangle”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1924782/posts?page=287#287
but he only has had disparaging remarks for me on this thread. See the responses to #287 just as a small sample.
Like Alamo Girl says, when all they have is insults, it means they’re out of ammunition.
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Why the smart money is on Duncan Hunter
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926032/posts
The hostile insulting pressures to join a particular perspective, mind set, attitude etc.
did NOT
originate with me or with Las Vegas Dave.
You have been given multiple encouragements and exhortations to clean up your act on this thread and have refused to do so.
The overwhelming bulk of us are quite disgusted and extremely disinterested in discussing the time of day or anything else with you.
Hello AG:
I’ll let you decide if that’s the case. Quix refuses to back up his contentions and throws insults my way instead. No one else has claimed to have read Renato Vesco’s book, “Intercept UFO”. I posted just a sampling and Las Vegas Dave thanked me for the foo-fighter link.
What is the accepted approach to an inductive area of study? Is not Occham’s Razor and other inductive logic the prevailing accepted approach? And logic fallacies are to be avoided & corrected?
As part of the Inductive Triangle that I introduced on a different thread, we see the same level of invective here. The insults are outside of the triangle, the data — especially testable data — are inside. I offered the fact that I put forth falsifiable data and it has only been met with contempt.
I never said anything about Las Vegas Dave, it looks to me that Quix is just looking for some allies.
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Why the smart money is on Duncan Hunter
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926032/posts
Evidently you are unaware that Las Vegas Dave is manager of the backup UFO ping list.
We manage the list and usually the threads mostly together.
His perspective is reportedly extremely close to mine on this thread and your part in it.
As are the perspectives of a number of ping list members who have taken the voluntary initiative to FREEP MAIL Dave and/or I about your posts on this thread.
I realize that personal insight is a spotty thing and sometimes a rare thing. But a few tanker-fulls more might be a good thing.
With regard to the contentiousness, I strongly suspect the two of you are approaching the subject from two completely different aspects.
Quix, you see things from a prophetic point-of-view. And Kevmo, you are the logician.
I would that you both laid aside any impressions or suspicions and instead just try to hear the other out to whatever extent that is possible.
Clear for all to see at this thread Note: ping list is still outdated, below thread has been notified twice!
UPDATED MASTER List of FReeper PING LISTS; Vol. VIII - SPRING Edition!
Thanks for your exhortation.
Will endeavor to do as you suggest.
May also, hopefully with discernment, continue to resist heavy handed pressure, demands etc. which convey a destructive attitude to such threads. Usually it’s the naysayers conveying such attitudes. Am not interested in those on our side chronically demonstrating a similar attitude.
Nevertheless, oil on the waters is good.
[Las Vegas Dave’s] perspective is reportedly extremely close to mine on this thread and your part in it.
***Then can I expect you to post a thank you for the foo-fighter stuff that I posted from Renato Vesco, the same way Dave did?
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Why the smart money is on Duncan Hunter
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926032/posts
I strongly suspect the two of you are approaching the subject from two completely different aspects. Quix, you see things from a prophetic point-of-view. And Kevmo, you are the logician.
***Thanks AG. Seeing things from a prophetic point of view is nothing new to me. I often post commentaries on threads that we as a culture are headed straight for Revelations Chapter 13. I have looked at the UFO controversy through that prism as well and, (see post #246) that has already been covered in this thread. If anything, my inductive approach has reinforced my own prophetic point of view, they are not mutually exclusive. Basically, I have viewed this subject matter through the same prism as Quix, and I have found it inferior to the more rational approach.
The whole controversy reminds me of how Feinman approached the beauty of a flower, and how his friend was haughty that the artistic approach was the better way to see the flower.
http://www.FreeScienceLectures.com This video is from 1981. The interview is also the subject of Feynman’s book The Pleasure of Finding Things Out. I have a friend who’s an artist and he’s some times taken a view which I don’t agree with very well. He’ll hold up a flower and say, “look how beautiful it is,” and I’ll agree, I think. And he says, “you see, I as an artist can see how beautiful this is, but you as a scientist, oh, take this all apart and it becomes a dull thing.” And I think he’s kind of nutty. First of all, the beauty that he sees is available to other people and to me, too, I believe, although I might not be quite as refined aesthetically as he is. But I can appreciate the beauty of a flower. At the same time, I see much more about the flower that he sees. I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions inside which also have a beauty. I mean, it’s not just beauty at this dimension of one centimeter: there is also beauty at a smaller dimension, the inner structure... also the processes. The fact that the colors in the flower are evolved in order to attract insects to pollinate it is interesting - it means that insects can see the color. It adds a question - does this aesthetic sense also exist in the lower forms that are... why is it aesthetic, all kinds of interesting questions which a science knowledge only adds to the excitement and mystery and the awe of a flower. It only adds. I don’t understand how it subtracts.
http://www.FreeScienceLectures.com
Here’s the latest gleanings from ATS:
ABDUCTIONS TURNING MORE AGGRESSIVE?
ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319578/pg1
WARNING: The photo link can include some unsavory ads. Nothing I saw was graphic. I just don’t like to frequent such pages that even mention such relationships.
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THE RAPTURE: THE GREATEST UPHEAVAL OF NATURE
ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319047/pg1
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Police officer says on BBC local news that Lt Col Halt is going to give proof of ufo`s
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319518/pg1
Hi all, On the local BBC news show, Look North, a police officer was interviewed and stated that Halt in conjunction with the History channel will give proof positive of the existence of UFO`s in a show to go out later this year. The officer is credited with creating the only known database of police UFO sightings in the U.K and the interview comes with a piece of patrol car footage showing the bright object type UFO. Did any one else see this? I was wondering if there was another book coming up about Rendelsham. Corky
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Intersting Read: From a world banker So true it is, so scarey it seems
ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319546/pg1
FROM EXTERNAL SOURCE:
Crazy world we live in, especially if it is as it is stated.
THE LETTER
Our globalist friend says he wants to explain political reality so we “might know how to behave in the New Order now taking shape on the earth.”
He exults in the fact that he represents a secret force that controls the world yet is invisible to all.
“We run everything, yet, you do not know who to attack. I must say this hidden hand is wonderfully devised and without any known historical precedent on this scale. We rule the world and the world cannot even find out who is ruling them. This is truly a wonderful thing. In our media we present before you exactly what it is we want you to do. Then, as if in a flash, our little servants obey.”
But he does identify himself. He clearly represents the central bankers: “Your own money has served to forge the chains we bind you with, since we are in control of all money.”
As I have said, the central banking cartel is the mainspring of the New World Order. By giving foreign private interests the power to create money based on our credit, our predecessors doomed Western Civilization. These private interests naturally bought control of everything and everyone and now want to institutionalize their control globally. This is behind world government and at the heart of the “war on terror.”
“Our kingdom is the kingdom of money,” our globalist friend writes. “We have given you a piece of paper or some numbers on a computer screen that we have termed ‘money.’ It is backed up by nothing and proven by nothing but what we say it is. We create it from nothing, we print it, we loan it, we give it its value, and we take its value away. All things that have to do with money are in our hands.”
Our globalist friend reveals that the bankers have a symbiotic relationship with us. We produce profits by borrowing from them.
“We want you to be in the system. When you are buying a house, we not only receive the tax revenue to use for our purposes, but we gain large increases from the interest on the loan. You may pay for your house two or three times over from the interest alone. The interest is also taxed which is again placed for use in those sectors of influence we choose. We do not want you to escape free and that is why we have made it as we have.”
One of those sectors of influence is education. He says our taxes pay for “the indoctrination of your children in the public schools we have set up. We want them to grow up well trained into the system of our thinking. Your children will learn what we want them to learn, when we want them to learn it, and you pay for it.”
“You are our property. We will not permit you to buy or sell unless you submit to our mark of authority. If you go to court against us, we will wear you out there and in the end you will lose. If you use violence, we will end up having you in one of our labor camps, more specifically called prison industries. You need our money, our entertainments, our fuel, and our utilities to function and if you don’t have them, you feel deprived. By this, you are made to yield to our will.”
OUR LEADERS
Our political leaders are chosen from the ranks of criminals and perverts because they can be made to obey using blackmail. Exposing President Clinton’s depravity was “very helpful in adjusting the moral habits of the youth downward.”
He scoffs at attempts to impeach Clinton: “He is useful to us and he will not be removed by anyone until we are ready to have him removed...the leader we set up will be there until it serves us to have another. At that time we place our proposed leader before you and you vote for what we want. In that way we give you the vain voting exercise in the belief you had something to do with placing your president in office.”
He cites Sadaam Hussein and Slobodan Milosevic as leaders who refused to obey. “There is only glory in following our purposes and doing what we say. If one does not, there will be such a sad and tragic result. I would really have you spared of such an end.”
As for smaller fry, he says rebellion will merely serve as an excuse for more repressive laws. They can tie dissenters up in court, which they also control. They can destroy people like David Koresh and discredit them at the same time.
He says Liberals and Conservatives “serve with the stamp of our approval but they are not allowed to present the real issues. By creating controversy on all levels, no one knows what to do. So, in all of this confusion, we go ahead and accomplish what we want with no hindrance.”
He says the media occupy the masses with sex and violence so people are programmed to fight mindlessly and “do not have the integrity or brain power to deal with the really important matters which are left entirely in our hands.”
China and Russia do not present a challenge: “We have no fear of Russia or China for we are already in full control of their system of things. China knows that we can freeze any number of its corporations in America and all of its capital at the stroke of a pen.”
CONCLUSION
We are taught that society is participating in an age of enlightenment and progress but this is a ruse. In fact a brutal claw reaches out of the past to impale mankind on its sharp talons.
We are witnessing the culmination of a diabolical conspiracy against mankind.
SOURCE LINK AT END OF THIS QUOTE ON THE ATS THREAD
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VERY INTERESTING DUBAI UFO VIDEO LINK:
http://www.disclose.tv/viewvideo/2300/Ufos_Over_Dubai_November_22_2oo7/
ATS THREAD ABOUT IT:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319563/pg1
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To me, the mathematics in Creation is astonishingly beautiful. I see it every where and every when - forms, autonomy, language and so on. But the reaction I get from some when I declare the beauty of mathematics is a "deer in the headlights" look. LOLOL!
Likewise, I doubt that Georgia O'Keefe could fully appreciate Stephen Wolfram's insights in contemplating a flower. But quilting artists would surely appreciate Escher's tessellations. And Godel, Escher and Bach would be quite at home with von Neumann!
And I suspect Bev Doolittle could appreciate Stephen Wolfram.
Tonight’s gleanings from ATS:
Truth Supressed: Juries’ right to acquit even if law broken
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319750/pg1
(ATS THREAD)
Have long suspected the above was true per my reading of the founding docs. But what did I a non-atny know! LOL.
Criminal instructions to juries. Sheesh.
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ASTEROID PASSING THROUGH 09 DEC 2007
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319892/pg1
NASA ORBIT MAP:
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=2007%20VD184;orb=1
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PROOF OF ALIEN OBILISK ON THE MOON NASA FOOTAGE
ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319806/pg1
NASA FOOTAGE VIDEO AVAILABLE IN THE ATS THREAD
APPOLO 16 VIDEO FOOTAGE LIBRARY:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/video16.html
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DISASTER MEDICINE CABINET:
ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319891/pg1
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SPECS FOR YOUR BUNKER ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319887/pg1
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NUCLEAR TERROR IMMINENT? ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319428/pg1
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NASA ADMITS TO STORMS AND DUST CLOUDS ON THE MOON: ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319792/pg1
NASA LINK:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/07dec_moonstorms.htm
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Magnetic Field Disruptor Of Alleged TR3B Confirmed???
ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319356/pg1
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UFO OVER ERUPTING VOLCANO ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319881/pg1
VIDEO LINK:
http://megavideo.com/?v=RJRQTBFC
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SAN DIEGO SIGHTING ATS THREAD:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread319636/pg1
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DAT’S ALL FOLKS.
“And No, I will not read that book by Shirley McClaine.”
I don’t remember mentioning the Hollywood lunatic Shirley McClaine.
“I don’t recall if it’s been debunked convincingly or not.”
It apparently has been debunked. All done with CGI.
OK. Thanks.
Sometimes the counterfeit can be quite close to the real, though.
Apparently once you have done so, the mystery will be resolved so please get to it.
WE haven't got all day.
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