Posted on 08/06/2007 6:34:13 AM PDT by steveg1961
Professional paleontologists from around the world are concerned about the misrepresentation of science at the newly opened Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky. The Creation Museum has been marketed to the public as a "reasoned, logical defence" for young- earth creationism by Ken Ham, the President and CEO of Answers in Genesis, which runs the Creation Museum. The Society of Vertebrate Paleontology, a world-wide scientific and educational organization concerned with vertebrate paleontology, contends that the museum presents visitors with a view of earth history that has been scientifically disproven for over a century.
The Creation Museum's fossil exhibitions, though artistically impressive, include a vast number of scientific errors, large and small. These errors range from implying that the Earth's sedimentary rocks were deposited by a single biblical Flood, to claiming that humans and dinosaurs lived alongside one another, to denouncing the reality of transitional fossils.
"Ken Ham is not recognized as a scientist or educator among experts in the fields of geology and paleontology, and his views on the interpretation of Biblical texts are extremist. Visitors to his 'museum' may arrive knowing little about these sciences, but they will leave misled and intellectually deceived," said Dr. Kevin Padian, Professor and Curator, University of California, Berkeley and President of the National Center for Science Education.
The fossil exhibits at the Creation Museum discount the last 150 years of paleontological and geological discovery. Not only are transitional fossils, including snakes with limbs and dinosaurs with feathers, abundant in the fossil record, but radiometric dating allows paleontologists to pinpoint the timing of major events in the ancient history of the earth.
For example, Tyrannosaurus rex existed over 65 million years ago, whereas modern humans didn't show up on the scene until 200 thousand years ago. They never walked side by side. The Creation Museum neglects to include this critical data in its analysis of the history of life on earth. "Most of us in the public view museums as places to get the latest information on scientific discovery. In this case, the Creation Museum is using the disguise of science museums and centers without including an iota of science inside," said Dr. Kristi Curry Rogers of the Science Museum of Minnesota.
"That's the real danger of such a place – undermining the basic principles of science, eroding the public's confidence in science, and causing a general weakening of science education in the country," commented Dr. Glenn Storrs of the Cincinnati Museum Center.
When young earth is treated as a religious belief that's fine with me.
When the young earth belief is pushed as science, using junk-science and pseudo-science, and all the while ignoring and contradicting real science, it is no better than a lie.
I'm sorry, I have to note a difference of opinion about science. It's more like peer-pressured, akin to high school. Science without any moral boundaries is ghoulish and cruel. (e.g. Hitler's human experiments; Japan's Unit 731 - I forget the exact number but they did chem/bio warfare experiments on prisoners, etc. etc.)
What about the over 200,000 children (mostly) injured or killed by the vaccines given to us by "peer-reviewed science" since 1993 (that's only the 10-20% who are noted in the Vaccine Injury compensation fund - what of the other huge percent?). Thanks, science, for covering your own tail with liability-free products like vaccines, but trying to argue moral superiority over parents in deciding what's best for their children.
How about the Restless Leg Syndrome medication on the TV - with side-effects that are bizzare, when perhaps a nutrional analysis, to include an analysis of iron needs, might very well solve the problem without wild side-effects. Ah, corporate science at its best."
There are countless Christians who have contributed positively to this Earth - William Wilberforce, the English abolishonist featured in Amazing Grace, for example. I believe the 100 million murdered last century were murdered by their atheistic governments, not Christians.
Certainly, science, in its proportionally right place, within reason (common sense, with wisdom, another commodity that isn't marketable or producible or scientifically explained), can be a help to people. But, it needs to be subject to the same scrutiny as all other pursuits of people, not less.
A dork in a scientific lab coat is still a dork.
Read some of Horace Mann and John Dewey's writings, founders of the public school system, about the priestly role of teachers in the humanist cause. Talk about wackos.
I doubt anyone would argue that public schools should be run by any religous group. But, it would be nice to acknowledge the fact that the secular humanists somehow have cornered the market in schools. It might give some poor kids a chance to avoid their indoctrination.
But, I digress.
No. It's not okay for either group to invade our schools.
I am not an atheist.. I am constantly amazed at ..how people will ascribe laughably inaccurate portraits of myself, .. I’m an arch-conservative who is also an extremely skeptical agnostic, ..... If you can’t see that the Christian “God” is nothing but a reflection of humanity’s deepest wants (and fears), and is nothing but a man-made construct, ...” ~ Locke_2007
Did you just deny the law of non-contradiction? How can you tell me anything (true OR false) about this God if you aren’t sure he exists?
“...you will never know reason or truth. “ ~ Locke_2007
You did it again. (You’re agnostic about Truth - remember?).
“.. no discovery of science will ever disprove the existence of God. To the contrary, to the extent that science converges on truth, then it is converging on Truth, which is to say, God. God does not embrace falsehood, whether scientific or religious. Therefore, whether they care to hear it or not, the scientist’s passionate quest for truth is a religious one, so that, with regard to the above [see link] debate, “God won. .... But this is what atheists do — the clever ones, anyway — for it is what all intellectuals do. Because they are clever, they are very good at understanding and internalizing the fashionable abstractions of the day. As a result, they tend to live in their abstractions, and there is no theory more abstract than atheism, for it superimposes an ultimately sterile dogma over the mystery of being. While this ground of being is a mystery, it is not an absurdity because it is infused with the very same logos that illuminates the mind and allows us to comprehend it. We see beauty [ http://tinyurl.com/2cel7q ] or know truth because both are logos calling out to logos.
To paraphrase George Steiner, if all of the religious loans made to science were called in at once, there would be no science left standing. Most notably, science cannot operate without the principles of transcendent truth and the objective mind capable of knowing — and loving — it, for truth is not pursued for its own sake, but because it partakes of the beautiful and the good.
Atheism is not just “ignorance of God,” but it inevitably redounds to ignorance of everything, since God is the seal of truth. To cite several obvious example, scientific materialism cannot tell us anything about what energy, or life, or consciousness actually are — but this does not mean that they do not exist or that humans cannot know what they are by other means, for we have reliable testimony that they are three aspects that converge upon the same entity, sat-chit-ananda, or being-consciousness-bliss. You could proclaim this to a scientific audience, but it would have no meaning within the constraints of the abstract paradigm they superimpose upon reality in order to reduce it to scientific understanding — which is to say, measurable quantities. You could also say that life is to matter as mind is to brain as God is to existence, but it wouldn’t mean much to a scientisTIC atheist. ...” http://tinyurl.com/24buzh
“The descriptions I provided were obviously huge problems as an omniscient God would KNOW that we would come along someday with science (not to mention common sense!) to point out the errors in his “perfect word”. You are arguing either for a malign deity, or an incompetent one. Or is he both?” ~ Locke_2007
All you have done is make unenlightened arguments and ask questions based on ignorance of the subject matter. http://www.christian-thinktank.com/5felled.html#longday
“...this sort of approach to religion represents stupidity on stilts”: http://onecosmos.blogspot.com/search?q=Radical+Wonder+and+the+Remystification+of+the+World+
What flawed astronomy?
So you admit there are “problems”. Ok.
Problems with calling them contradictions. But I think you knew what I meant.
They are all contradictions. If you are a bible fundamentalist, what version do you believe, if all have been “screwed up” by improper copying as you so eloquently stated? Wouldn’t your perfect God have known how to dictate a message that would NOT be improperly copied? So there would be no doubt? Aren’t you arguing for an incompetent, or worse, deliberately malign deity?
As I said, I'm talking about grammatical and numerical errors. And when I said man's ability to screw up (yes, I meant fallable man, ugh), I spoke generally, not specifically in reference to the copying of scripture, which has remarkably remained pretty much intact over thousands of years.
Wouldn’t your perfect God have known how to dictate a message that would NOT be improperly copied? So there would be no doubt? Aren’t you arguing for an incompetent, or worse, deliberately malign deity?
Let's take your argument to its logical conclusion. According to you, my perfect God should not have allowed man to sin in the first place, should not allow for any evil in the world, should not allow for anyone to make mistakes or act within their own limitations, or exercise any free will whatsoever.
The reason it would be detected and corrected is because scientific journals, unlike the bible, are subjected to critical scrutiny and peer-review.
You're saying the Bible isn't subjected to critical scrutiny and peer review? Snort. And speaking of discovered errors, are you familiar with the standards of Jewish scribes? Again, the text over thousands of years has remained remarkably intact.
(how many versions are there? Which is THE correct version according to you, the fundamentalist?)
Well, there are a ton of versions, some good and some not so good. It all depends on their accuracy of translation from the original text.
And the Nazis who committed the Holocaust were Christians - so please spare me the litany of atheist murderers - I hate any genocidal maniac as much as the next decent person - but Christianity has plenty of blood on its hands, too. Spanish Inquisition, anyone?
Oh puh-lease, the Nazis were not Christians, and any who claimed to be true Christians and true Nazis at the same time weren't reading their bibles. Hitler used Christianity as a propaganda tool to justify the murder of Jews. And the Spanish Inquisition - again, HARDLY biblical practice. You see, that's the thing. Any evil done in the name of Christ has been just that - in name only; NOT as He taught or lived. (But I think you know that too.)
The kids abused by the Catholic priests might disagree with you.
Lame. And I'm not even catholic.
The poor are starving around the world now in much greater numbers than when I was a young child.
Got statistics? But let's pretend that's accurate (I don't really know). Hmm, let's see - socialism's inevitable ills? The world's propensity to throw aid money at a situation rather than build infrastructure? You know, giving a man a fish rather than teaching him to fish? The plain old fact that the world's population is about doubled from when I was a kid, so it stands to reason that more numbers are suffering?
Besides, I never claimed that Christianity has fixed everything bad in the world; I just gave you some examples to counter your claim that religion has done NOTHING GOOD in the world.
The Pope says not to use birth control. I guess starving babies are better than no babies?
Huh? This has to do with what exactly?
What if I don’t want to take my chances? I have a right to life too, and please don’t try to feed me that nonsense about souls & eternal life.
That's the beauty of this thing called free will. You can make your own choices.
Religions hold back science every chance they can - the stem cell research controversy is but one small example.
My friend, this is incredibly disingenuous, and even though I think you know this too, I'll tell you why. First of all, embryonic stem cell research is perfectly legal. Presently it's just the federal funding that can't be used on it. You want to donate money to further research into it, by all means, go right ahead. And while you're at it, please cite for me the many advances that science has gleaned from it. Then, compare that list to the one that has all the advances science has gleaned from adult stem cell research.
I resent that I have to die because of someone else’s superstitious delusion.
Strawman.
“Hitler used Christianity as a propaganda tool to justify the murder of Jews. And the Spanish Inquisition - again, HARDLY biblical practice.”
Hardly biblical practice, eh? How about these?
http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm
The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is filled with numerous stories of animal and human sacrifice. God, we are told, likes the pleasing aroma of burning flesh. Animal sacrifice is much more common than human sacrifice, but both occur and are “pleasing to the Lord”.
Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God. “Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.” (Genesis 22:1-18) Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him. He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar. Then Abraham ties his son to the altar and puts a knife to his throat. He then hears God tell him this was just a test of his faith. However, God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram.
Even though he didn’t kill his son, it is still an incredibly cruel and evil thing to do. If Abraham did that today he would be in jail serving a long sentence as someone’s prison-bitch. It amazes me how Christians see this story as a sign of God’s love. There is no love here, just pure unadulterated evil.
The first seven chapters of Leviticus have extensive rules regarding animal and food sacrifices. These offerings are supposed to be burnt so that God can smell them. If you read through these it seems clear to me that the priests were getting their followers to make a big feast for them every week. The priests were very particular about what kind of food to bring and how to prepare it.
Even more peculiar is God’s obsession with first-born sons. In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said “Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.” Later it says that you can redeem (replace) an ass with a sheep and that you must redeem a child for an unspecified price. It is clear from the context that “consecrate” means a burning sacrifice. These priests are guilty of theft and kidnapping. Since any sins in the Old Testament were punishable by death, these priests used the threat of death to extort food and money from their followers. What do we call a scum-bag that threatens to kill your kids unless you pay a ransom? A kidnapper! If these priests were alive today they would be in prison with Abraham.
However, in Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions. “Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death.” I must admit that I am a bit confused by this contradiction, but it might only apply to slaves in your possession. Not that it makes any difference. A human sacrifice is a human sacrifice, and it is just sick.
Bible Passages About Ritual Human Sacrifice
Jephthah Burns His Daughter
“At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, “If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
“So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. “My daughter!” he cried out. “My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back.” And she said, “Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin.” “You may go,” Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah’s daughter.” (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)
God Commands Burning Humans
[The Lord speaking] “The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel.” (Joshua 7:15 NLT)
Josiah and Human Sacrifice
At the LORD’s command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD’s command, he shouted, “O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you.” (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)
He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: “You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant.” There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah’s reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD’s Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)
Human Sacrifice
Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself. In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble; (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.)
Child Sacrifice
And this became a hidden trap for mankind, because men, in bondage to misfortune or to royal authority, bestowed on objects of stone or wood the name that ought not to be shared. Afterward it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but they live in great strife due to ignorance, and they call such great evils peace. For whether they kill children in their initiations, or celebrate secret mysteries, or hold frenzied revels with strange customs… (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV) The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible. This passage condemns human sacrifice but acknowledges that it did happen by early God worshipers.
Humans are Fuel for Fire
As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end. Return it to its sheath! In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)
Burn Nonbelievers
“Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Rape In The Bible
Rape is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. Yet few people know that the Bible often condones and even approves of rape. How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape escapes me. Perhaps they have been lied to about the Bible and carefully detoured around all the nasty stuff in the Bible.
So grab your Bibles and follow along as I show you all the nasty rapes that your priests and preachers don’t want to tell you about. Note that in many places in the Bible there are references to “taking a wife”. Don’t be fooled into thinking that these were voluntary marriages. This first quote clearly shows that murder and force were used to “take” these wives.
1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God’s curse.”
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.’” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?
2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.
3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”.
6) David’s Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God’s “Forgiveness” (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”
Once again God approves of forcible rape.
8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)
9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
I have no problem discussing each and every one of those claims you just made, er, cut and pasted, but unlike you, I have to take just a little more time than all of 9 minutes to copy, I mean, type as much as you just did. :)
But I have to say, you blatantly ignored my ENTIRE post, swept it away with that one huge paste which obviously took longer to google than it actually did to post. How about we go back and respond directly to my last response instead?
If you’re done addressing specific points, fine, let me know. I’m not inclined to tackle a new giant paste like that one this late in the evening.
(oh, ok, maybe just a couple!)
“It is clear from the context that “consecrate” means a burning sacrifice.”
06942 qadash {kaw-dash’}
a primitive root; TWOT - 1990; v
AV - sanctify 108, hallow 25, dedicate 10, holy 7, prepare 7,
consecrate 5, appointed 1, bid 1, purified 1, misc 7; 172
1) to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy,
be sanctified, be separate
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be set apart, be consecrated
1a2) to be hallowed
1a3) consecrated, tabooed
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to show oneself sacred or majestic
1b2) to be honoured, be treated as sacred
1b3) to be holy
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to set apart as sacred, consecrate, dedicate
1c2) to observe as holy, keep sacred
1c3) to honour as sacred, hallow
1c4) to consecrate
1d) (Pual)
1d1) to be consecrated
1d2) consecrated, dedicated
1e) (Hiphil)
1e1) to set apart, devote, consecrate
1e2) to regard or treat as sacred or hallow
1e3) to consecrate
1f) (Hithpael)
1f1) to keep oneself apart or separate
1f2) to cause Himself to be hallowed (of God)
1f3) to be observed as holy
1f4) to consecrate oneself
Hmm, definition of the word doesn’t indicate human sacrifice. evilbible.com says it’s based on context? Elaborate please!
Let’s look at the next one.
“However, in Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions. “Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death.” I must admit that I am a bit confused by this contradiction, but it might only apply to slaves in your possession. Not that it makes any difference. A human sacrifice is a human sacrifice, and it is just sick.”
No...wrong, just wrong. (What’s the part in quotes from, by the way?) What the passage means is that sons CANNOT be sacrificed, therefore they must be bought back for a price.
It goes this way - firstborn animals that are clean are acceptable sacrifices (v12). Donkeys are unclean, so they are redeemed with a lamb (v13). If it is not able to be redeemed (no lamb available, or for whatever other reason), just break its neck. Human sons CANNOT be sacrificed, so they are ALSO redeemed, again, with a perfect lamb (v13). The author of your paste is claiming that what human sons and donkeys have in common is the breaking of the neck, rather than the redemption. This is dead wrong.
The word redeem applied to both the unclean donkey and the human child (BOTH of which cannot be sacrificed) is padah, and it means to ransom, redeem, rescue, deliver. It does NOT mean kill, not even close. This is blatant twisting of the plain text.
Can we go back to responding to my post now?
Locke_2007: “Hardly biblical practice, eh? How about these?
http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm “
April 8th 2003, 01:10 AM
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=2802
Well, after emailing Evil Editor Chris Baba at Editor@EvilBible.com, http://www.evilbible.com/about_evil_bible.htm I received the following reply:
“Thanks, but I have been spending too much time on debating.”
Typical. He’s all pomp and bluster over on the newsgroups and on his website in his bellowings of “THE BI-BUL IS E-VUL! EEE-VUL!!! EEEEEEEEE-VUL!!!!!!!!!” but when it comes to actually defending his rants, he goes AWOL. *shrug* Oh, well. Might as well make the best of it. Anyone up for savaging the stuff on his website? :yipee: ~ J.P. Holding
April 8th 2003, 09:31 AM
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=2802
I have a question for the anti-Christians who allege that there are moral atrocities committed by and commanded by the Christian god in the Bible. My question is as follows:
If you believe we are just rearranged pond scum, how can you explain the notion of “atrocity”? After all, we supposedly arose by a process of survival of the fittest, where the strong mercilessly kill the weak. And even your thoughts are just an epiphenomenon of the matter in your brain. In particular, your notion of an “atrocity” was merely something that gave your ape-like ancestor some sort of survival advantage. Evolution can explain only survival, not objective morality.
Thanks in advance for your reply. ~ J.P. Holding
Good Question...God is Wrathful, Vengeful, Jealous, and Angry every day—and you want me to have a relationship with Him?!
Initial Date: July 23, 2000; Last revision: July 25, 2000 Glenn Miller
The question of God’s wrath (and associated images) are a topic of frequent questions, ponderings, and discomfort for many, and historically, a source of derision and disapproval from non-Christians. This issue is sometimes stated as a contrast between Wrath and Love, as this honest questioner notes: [snip]
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/madgod.html
Good question...shouldn’t the butchering of the Amalekite children be considered war crimes?
[Modified: Oct/2000; May 2001; added a tiny comment on ‘euthanasia by humans’ May 2002] Glenn Miller
Does the bible actually portray God as “infinitely merciful and just” and at the same time as a genocidal deity, contradicting itself at a deep, moral level? bttt [snip]
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/rbutcher1.html
In your second statement:
And I believe in Genesis. However, I do not believe that Genesis is intended as a literal recounting of how Creation took place
In your third statement, same post:
My theology holds that Genesis is a literal recounting of creation, not my "scientific logic".
You can't keep it straight even within the same post. Your loopy logic and inconsistency is actually comical.
No, the Bible does not say that the world was created 6,000 years ago. See here.
Young-earth creationism is man-made doctrine that is a stumbling block to many who might otherwise come to God. You have no idea how dangerous this doctrine is. People don't have to leave their brains at the door when they become Chistians.
Wrong. See here.
My degrees are in chemistry and chemical engineering and I've worked in scientific fields all of my life. I have also taken Hebrew classes and many, many Bible classes and know enough to understand when I'm being fooled and when I'm being told the truth.
Young-earth creationism is not supported by the Bible and is not supported by what God has shown us through his creation. It's a dangerous man-made doctrine that has kept many from coming to Christ.
Sorry if I'm being rough but I have witnessed to too many people who think that all Christians are young-earth creationists. Their argument is that if Christians are so wrong on this topic, how can they be right on who Jesus Christ is? They have a valid point.
To paraphrase the apostle Paul: if you've been a Christian for more than a couple of years, it's time to put away childish beliefs and receive mature Christian beliefs.
I'm a scientist and a creationist, too. I just don't believe the man-made doctrine that the world is approximately 6,000 years old. The Bible (special revelation) doesn't support it and neither does our study of God's universe (general revelation).
Those "microstuctures" are all composed of just five basic elements: carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, and phosphorus. They represent the common denominators in all life.
Indeed, the fact that most organisms (bacteria, archaea and eukarya) use the same genetic code explains present recombinant DNA technology (i.e., the ability to cut and past genetic elements from one organism into another organism) since they assign amino acids to the same codons. Thus, not surprisingly, a human gene can be expressed in bacteria or yeast or jelly fish, and jelly fish genes can be expressed in bacteria, plants, fungi, animals and protists.
In short, arrangement of the base set is determinate, mutation is simply re-arrangement of the set, and those "unique microstructures" you speak of are really just a slightly re-shuffled deck.
In an ideal world for the evolutionist, DNA would be far simpler . . .
I've never understood this particular line of reasoning. The propensity for mutation (or deck re-shuffling) seems necessarily greater in a complex molecular coding system than a simple one.
. . . and mutations would be far more likely to be beneficial than what is observed.
Nor this line of reasoning. It seems to be an argument that one element of the evolutionary equation "should" operate on a faster clock for some reason, but the ratio (to the extent one can establish a ratio) of beneficial to detrimental mutations is what it is. Factor in time (and be wary of presumptive attempts to categorize "detrimental" and "beneficial" mutation).
I would do both. God can can heal miraculously (yes, I've seen it happen), God can heal through people who have studied his creation, and God, for reasons unknown to us, can choose not to heal at all or to wait for a later time.The most miraculous things I've seen have not been healings, even though I could relate many instances to you, but of changed lives. The man who cuts our lawn used to a drunkard, a drug addict, a thief and a robber, a smuggler of illegal aliens and a drug smuggler. Since he accepted Christ about 10 years ago, he has changed into a different person and is a sober, level-headed, family man and a respected member of his church. God changed his heart.
I give it a few years. Heritage USA lasted a few years. It depends on whether they add a roller coaster.
“Without mutation magically creating new genetic structures, there is no evolution.”
You have forgotten genetic drift and natural selection.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.