Posted on 07/28/2007 6:00:30 PM PDT by blam
1m-years-old footprints found at Margalla Hills
By Sher Baz Khan
ISLAMABAD, July 27: In what appears to be a major discovery, archaeologists have found two over one million years old human footprints preserved on a sandstone at the Margalla Hills.
The Indusians Research Cell, which is working under the supervision of world renowned archaeologist and historian Dr Ahmad Hassan Dani of Taxila Institute of Asian Civilisations, Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad, has made the discovery, which is likely to add a new chapter to the archaeological history and heritage of the federal capital and attract visitors.
A footprint of 1 feet is in complete and well preserved form while another is broken from the finger side which is also of the same size in comparative manner. The notable marks of the feet are the clear veins and opposite folded appearance.
“A huge stone on the top of the hill is the secure home of these prints since about over one million years ago,” says A.K. Azad, an archaeologist and head of the project.
Further research may give more clues of the foot marks through anthropological and geophysical methods, he observed.
The recent discovery is the continuity of the Indusian Research Cell’s earlier research about human evolution which previously revealed a fossilised upper jaw from the site of Dhudhumber, foot and hand prints from Attock and Palaeolithic cave from Margalla hills.
Pakistan’s geomorphologic research was conducted to compare with the Alps of Europe during the period of 1930-1939 by a French mission. Since then, lots of other dimensions of the research opened the doors of scientific research in Pakistan as the country provided the glacial sequence, fossilised evidences of Pre-Cambrian to Holocene epochs, earliest evidences of the anthropoid existence, earliest cultural centre at Mehargarh (contemporary of Jericho and Jarmo) and most advanced civilisation of the world (Indus valley).
Indusians Research Cell started the second phase of the project “Post-earthquake Explorations of Human Remains in Margalla Hills” under the supervision of A.K. Azad.
According to Mr Azad the formation of the Margalla Hills goes back to the Miocene epoch. The dominant limestone of the Margalla is also mixed with the sand stone.
“So we can assume that due to availability of the water in ancient times many marks of the zoological as well botanical significance may lead to our objectives,” the young archaeologist hopes.
In 1976, Pakistan opened another chapter of human evolution, which makes case for Asian anthropoid origin from this region.
During the ‘60s and ‘70s, Pilbeam led expeditions to the Siwalik Hills badlands of northern Pakistan, searching for further Ramapithecine remains.
In March 1975 and January 1976 team members made surface recoveries of four bone fragments which fit together to form the most complete mandible recovered yet. The mandible shows that Ramapithecus did not have a parabolic, human like dental arcade, as originally thought, but rather a V-shaped, more apelike arcade. Though the shape of the arcade is not now regarded as one of the more anatomically important characters, Ramapithecus is no longer granted the high status that it once received.
Different scholars have defined the word ‘Potohar’ differently. But, anthropological research marked it, as the grand father of hominid, also known as Punjabicus found from the Potohar region.
So the government of Pakistan had given the name to this specie Potoharmans.
According to Mr Azad, the problem of human evolution is still hanging around that when and where Anthropoid got physical changes from the Apes?
After India, Kenya and China, he says important discovery was from the Potohar region from fossils of the similar species found in 1976 and 1982. The probable dating given to this specie was 20 million years.
“It has provided a missing link, which was spread of 6 million years. So Potoharmans declared as the grand father of hominid, which evolved from the different stages and reached at the Homo sapiens,” he observes.
The stories behind the similar marks are also significant in mythical associations with saints and renowned people i.e. hand prints of the Baba Guru Nanik near Hassanabdal, foot prints of Hazrat Ali in Hyderabad, foot prints of the Guru Padma Sambhava (Second reincarnation of Buddha) in Swat, Adam’s peak of Sri Lanka etc.
“If these are true than we can also claim of the mother Eve’s foot prints from Margalla Hills,” Mr Azad observed.
[[Does your posting of a purely religious post on what was started as a science thread suggest an FR policy that scientists are welcome to come to the Religion Forum and post science, especially when it directly contradicts and falsifies religious beliefs?]]
I’m sorry, but the following all too familiar ‘scientist’s’ song of choice does absolutely nothing to... what was it again? “Directly Contradict and falsify religion”
[[Young earth creationism, ... is anti-science by its very nature. You have to ignore, trash, explain away, or flat-out lie about much of science, from biology, to archaeology, paleontology, linguistics, geology, nuclear physics (dating studies), sedimentology (no evidence for a global flood), astronomy, genetics, Egyptology, physics (the second law of thermodynamics), and history.]]
You didn't get the impression that Einstein believed in a personal god (in any conventional sense) from me, gcruse. So please stop beating me up over this point.
Notwithstanding, my sense is that Einstein was far more than a deist; for it seems he "sensed" and experienced God in a highly direct and personal way. That is to say, in terms of a relationship that cannot be described by the relations of a watch and its watchmaker. If you catch my drift.
So you're saying Scotsmen are welcome, but only true Scotsmen? I might regret this, but what do you consider an appropriate activity for science, and what is not? Every facet of human existence, real or imagined, has been subsumed under one religion or another. Inevitably, science is going to falsify some religious beliefs--whether it's the Noahic flood, Quranic ontogeny, or the destruction of the two holy trees of the Valar. If "legitimate" science has no business falsifying any religious belief, there is almost nothing left in the heavens or on earth for science to investigate.
That footprint you posted is the funniest post so far.
I suppose it is not inconsistent to believe in both a supernatural creator (despite there being no evidence of any) and evolution, but it would be illogical to call oneself both a Christian and an evolutionist, since macroevolution contradicts the Adam and Eve fable in the Bible.
You are correct. Einstein was on record as saying he did not believe in a “personal” God that intervened in the world. I agree “deist” is probably as good an expression of Einstein’s view as any.
Or Prototypes.
The only thing we really know about the development level of Adam and Eve is that they were tall enough to reach the apple.
Don’t be disheartened by the degeneration of your effort into flame wars. There are those of us out here who enjoy your posts and look forward to them.
I rarely read further than the first dozen replies before closing the page, the last thing I need is to watch children throw tantrums demanding attention.
first coffee - last post!
Love youse guys - have a solution suggestion.
Always have three threads -
One for scientific discussion
One for religious opponents
One for the inquisitive with no agenda and who promise not to flame, insult or speak for God.
Sorry if I caused pain;)
sod
PS -- Love your tagline.
Dave, you are incredibly rude by not only ignoring blam's request, but by deliberately trying to be disruptive. Your creationist 'ping' was exactly what started the trash talking. You and your 'Lying for the Lord' creationists, and that's exactly what they are, don't have the intellectual power to run a 25 watt light bulb. Your ping list contributes no reasonable discussion, but simply opens up the door to a bunch of ignorant hicks who have proven time and again they don't even know what science is, let alone are even remotely qualified to discuss the subject at hand.
But then again, what else can one expect from you? You certainly do not show any respect from someone who posts very interesting articles and who has shown incredible class in dealing with a buffoon like you. Why did you even bother to ask blam if he minded you pinging your disruptive wing nuts? Your reply clearly indicated not only that you didn't care about blam's feelings on the matter, but that you deliberately wanted to cause problems. It's like deliberately passing gas in a crowded elevator and then bragging about it.
You need to accept more than the first chaper of Genesis if you want to be a Christian example. Otherwise, you are an example of why people choose not to be associated with Christians. What an embarrassment and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Science's mandate is to describe the natural world. It does so on the basis of direct observation. That means it must deal with observables. If something isn't observable (quantifiable, subject to measurement), and isn't susceptible to replicable experiments, then it isn't a subject for science as a matter of principle.
As far as the falsification of religion is concerned, I have not yet encountered anything in legitimate science (see above definition) that actually does this.
As far as the falsification of religion is concerned, I have not yet encountered anything in legitimate science (see above definition) that actually does this.
A global flood 4350 years ago and a 6000 year old earth are two examples where religious beliefs have been falsified by science.
So which year was Christ crucified? 30AD or 33AD? Please show your math.
As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc. We also oppose the United Nations or any other world government body that may attempt to impose its will or rule over our sovereign nation and sovereign people. We believe in defending our borders, our constitution and our national sovereignty.
As to why my reply post on this thread was “religious” – religion was the original issue of the sidebar to which I was pinged, namely the assertion that "Well, it is either Creation OR Evolution. Can’t be BOTH" from post 69.
The view I hold, which betty boop also holds, is that Creation and Evolution are not mutually exclusive - provided when one says "Evolution" he does not mean to include atheism as part of the theory (which it is not.)
Briefly put, there is nothing in Genesis which says God did not give creatures the ability to adapt.
Moreover, in ordinary English, "evolution" means roughly, gradual change over time.
And with reference to science, Darwin's Theory of Evolution did not address "what is life?" much less the origin of life (abiogenesis/biogenesis) much less theology. His theory was concerned with speciation only.
Even so, there could remain a "bone of contention" between Genesis 1 and Darwin's Theory of Evolution vis-à-vis whether there was a single life form from which all species descended - or whether there were specially created "kinds" which then continued to adapt causing species - or whether the specially created "kinds" were not capable of adaptation (which as far as I know, no one has claimed.)
In that regard, as I recall from a previous discussion with Tortoise, the mathematics debunks the idea of a single life form at the root – there had to be many all at once for a theory of abiogenesis to “get off the ground” even if they were all of the same type.
Also, as I recall from previous discussions with Physicist and Tortoise and PatrickHenry, that the geologic record as a continuum is a presumption which can never be proven because not every creature has left a fossil in the record.
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