You should know better.
Posted on 07/28/2007 6:00:30 PM PDT by blam
1m-years-old footprints found at Margalla Hills
By Sher Baz Khan
ISLAMABAD, July 27: In what appears to be a major discovery, archaeologists have found two over one million years old human footprints preserved on a sandstone at the Margalla Hills.
The Indusians Research Cell, which is working under the supervision of world renowned archaeologist and historian Dr Ahmad Hassan Dani of Taxila Institute of Asian Civilisations, Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad, has made the discovery, which is likely to add a new chapter to the archaeological history and heritage of the federal capital and attract visitors.
A footprint of 1 feet is in complete and well preserved form while another is broken from the finger side which is also of the same size in comparative manner. The notable marks of the feet are the clear veins and opposite folded appearance.
“A huge stone on the top of the hill is the secure home of these prints since about over one million years ago,” says A.K. Azad, an archaeologist and head of the project.
Further research may give more clues of the foot marks through anthropological and geophysical methods, he observed.
The recent discovery is the continuity of the Indusian Research Cell’s earlier research about human evolution which previously revealed a fossilised upper jaw from the site of Dhudhumber, foot and hand prints from Attock and Palaeolithic cave from Margalla hills.
Pakistan’s geomorphologic research was conducted to compare with the Alps of Europe during the period of 1930-1939 by a French mission. Since then, lots of other dimensions of the research opened the doors of scientific research in Pakistan as the country provided the glacial sequence, fossilised evidences of Pre-Cambrian to Holocene epochs, earliest evidences of the anthropoid existence, earliest cultural centre at Mehargarh (contemporary of Jericho and Jarmo) and most advanced civilisation of the world (Indus valley).
Indusians Research Cell started the second phase of the project “Post-earthquake Explorations of Human Remains in Margalla Hills” under the supervision of A.K. Azad.
According to Mr Azad the formation of the Margalla Hills goes back to the Miocene epoch. The dominant limestone of the Margalla is also mixed with the sand stone.
“So we can assume that due to availability of the water in ancient times many marks of the zoological as well botanical significance may lead to our objectives,” the young archaeologist hopes.
In 1976, Pakistan opened another chapter of human evolution, which makes case for Asian anthropoid origin from this region.
During the ‘60s and ‘70s, Pilbeam led expeditions to the Siwalik Hills badlands of northern Pakistan, searching for further Ramapithecine remains.
In March 1975 and January 1976 team members made surface recoveries of four bone fragments which fit together to form the most complete mandible recovered yet. The mandible shows that Ramapithecus did not have a parabolic, human like dental arcade, as originally thought, but rather a V-shaped, more apelike arcade. Though the shape of the arcade is not now regarded as one of the more anatomically important characters, Ramapithecus is no longer granted the high status that it once received.
Different scholars have defined the word ‘Potohar’ differently. But, anthropological research marked it, as the grand father of hominid, also known as Punjabicus found from the Potohar region.
So the government of Pakistan had given the name to this specie Potoharmans.
According to Mr Azad, the problem of human evolution is still hanging around that when and where Anthropoid got physical changes from the Apes?
After India, Kenya and China, he says important discovery was from the Potohar region from fossils of the similar species found in 1976 and 1982. The probable dating given to this specie was 20 million years.
“It has provided a missing link, which was spread of 6 million years. So Potoharmans declared as the grand father of hominid, which evolved from the different stages and reached at the Homo sapiens,” he observes.
The stories behind the similar marks are also significant in mythical associations with saints and renowned people i.e. hand prints of the Baba Guru Nanik near Hassanabdal, foot prints of Hazrat Ali in Hyderabad, foot prints of the Guru Padma Sambhava (Second reincarnation of Buddha) in Swat, Adam’s peak of Sri Lanka etc.
“If these are true than we can also claim of the mother Eve’s foot prints from Margalla Hills,” Mr Azad observed.
I believe He can also make sure that His word can be translated and reprinted throughout generations without being altered. This is why I believe that the Bible is true and should be interpreted as accurate.
You should know better.
For a footprint to last a very long time, it has to be made in something that turns into stone.
Under perfect conditions, the footprint in mud (for example) gets covered in loose sand or volcanic ash, which is then covered with other layers, slowly accreting until it is buried deeply indeed.
It is these accreting layers that give clues as to how much time has passed. Viewed simply, if they were made by the annual flooding of a river, then counting the layers like tree rings would suffice to show the age of the fossilized footprint, (just as ancient ferns have left fossil images).
It is, of course, never that simple. Unusual things must happen to the rock in order for it to return to the surface and be discovered, and that can break the clear chain of observable layers. Careful comparisons with other such rock, or re-establishing the timeline by finding layers of volcanic dust which can be lined up like the markings on a bullet, can put the isolated fragments back into perspective.
And admittedly, sometimes other stratagems may have to be used to get estimates for the ages of ancient bits of rock. That's often why a range of possibilities is suggested. We may not know when the footprints were made, but we can tell when the rocks were made by various processes.
Sorry, you are pretending to do science so you have to live by the rules and definitions of science. You can't just make it up as you go. In science the inability to interbreed for whatever reason is a major part of speciation.
The Arctic rabbit is an example, it can no longer breed with the southern rabbit, but is in a dog now? No, it is still a rabbit.
Its a different species, just like the example I provided. What does a dog have to do with it? (Or is this a chicken, as below?)
Your example is not of a new species but the same that has lost the ability to interbreed with some of the original stock.
That is a new species, by definition.
It is possible for the northern rabbit to breed with both the Arctic rabbit and the southern rabbit.
How? Do they just catch the next north or south-bound bus? Reproductive isolation is the key to speciation whether you like it or not.
So you feeble attempt to show new species is just variation and or adaptation which by the way is not evolution.
False. Your feeble attempt to explain away a clear-cut case of speciation is noted. I am aware that you are unable to accept the evidence, because if you are shown to be incorrect in one of your beliefs--what other beliefs might also be incorrect?
Evolution by definition has new information added not lost.
By whose definition? Yours? Some other creationist?
Scientists deal with facts, not beliefs. Evolution can easily be through lost information, as well as changed information. Look at the blind and albino cave critters for examples.
NO sir you are not showing change in to a new species like your Tax funded bibles or text books as I like to call them, where a lizard changes into a chicken.
Your definition of change would overturn evolution, not support it. Don't you realize how idiotic it is to expect a lizard to give birth to a chicken? That is a creationist strawman with no relation to the real world or the theory of evolution.
Two very distinct animals, there are not enough seconds in the history of the world for the mutational changes that would to have to happen in both a male and female in the same location for that to happen.
Wrong once again! You sure make a career out of misunderstanding or misrepresenting science, don't you? Evolution takes place by incremental changes in the genomes of populations, not as your silly "lizard to chicken" example. In each generation, the population changes slightly. There are always plenty of males and females to pass on their genomes to the next generation--if they are sufficiently well adapted. Otherwise, extinct; game over.
Your variation of the same species is a joke right? Your intellect really excepts this a proof of one species into another. Wow. Wasted tax dollars at work.
You believe that is science.
It is not a joke; it is an example of speciation, which you asked to see. Now, for religious reasons, you find yourself denying the evidence that is right in front of your face. And you also have to throw in some gratuitous anti-science comments as well.
You have made it clear where you are coming from: you hate science because it disagrees with your preconceived religious beliefs, and you will ignore all evidence that shows your beliefs are incorrect.
And to make it worse, you lecture those of us who know better on what is and is not science.
Stick to religion. You are no good at science.
As PatrickHenry posted before he was banned:
Creative author: "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, Alice in WonderlandEvolutionist: "Why, sometimes I've seen new evidence explaining as many as six formerly unexplained things before breakfast."
Creationist: "Bah! I will never believe those six recently explained things, and besides, Darwin, Hitler and Stalin ate breakfast."
I don't doubt that is what you are really up to. You and a few of your cohorts have driven about 90% of the scientists off this website. I don't think it is accidental.
You stubbornly refuse to accept that opposing a specific set of beliefs based on philosophical assumptions is a far cry from being anti-science, any more than not buying global alarmism is anti-science, or not supporting embryonic stem cell research is science.
Young earth creationism, which you espouse, is anti-science by its very nature. You have to ignore, trash, explain away, or flat-out lie about much of science, from biology, to archaeology, paleontology, linguistics, geology, nuclear physics (dating studies), sedimentology (no evidence for a global flood), astronomy, genetics, Egyptology, physics (the second law of thermodynamics), and history.
“I see the Darwinist moonbats are out in full force today.”
Creationist moonbats as well.
“thought it was 9,700 years old.”
Seems strange to me, but those who claim they can tell exactly how old the Earth is by reading the Bible don’t agree on the number of years. That tells me the Bible isn’t a very good source for the age of the Earth.
I think we ought to respect the wishes of the person who started this thread. If he doesn't want the conversation drifting towards the theological, then so be it. We should not entice further debate regarding such.
You asked, “And if evolution is real where are the living intermediates now, or are you a believer of Hopeful Monsters.”
Answers are in order.
The missing links are right before our eyes. For example, they drive large SUVs and dress in green uniforms, here in FloriDUH.
Many ‘intermediates’ are elected to, and serve in state Crapitals, and in DC.
“There Be Monsters” - Yes, indeedy! Mostly of our own making.
;-)
As if we could rid ourselves of "theological considerations," just because we might happen to prefer it that way?
Is that what you meant, csense? blam?
LOL. That's a good one!
LOL. Why must you tempt me?
Wow, sure showing a lot of class there. I bet you win over a whole lot of people with that attitude.
I meant it in the way that has already been expressed, especially by Coyoteman. That’s all I’m going to say on the subject.
Einstein said....
Einstein never endorsed any organized religion, let alone his own native one, Judaism. But he avidly, faithfully followed (and led) the fortunes of The Tribe (as he called it) all is life long.
And Einstein recognized a personal God, and even had a name for it: He called Him "the Old One." (Who didn't play dice with the universe, among other things.)
And Einstein also said this:
"A religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those superpersonal objects and goals which neither require not are capable of rational foundation."Elsewhere he said this:
"The most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is the sense of the mysterious. It is the underlying principle of religion as well as all serious endeavour in art and science. He who never had this experience seems to me, if not dead, then at least blind. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is a something that our mind cannot grasp and whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly and as a feeble reflection, this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious. To me it suffices to wonder at these secrets and to attempt humbly to grasp with my mind a mere image of the lofty structure of all that there is."And he even went so far as to say this:
"There is, fortunately, a minority composed of those who recognize early in their lives that the most beautiful and satisfying experiences open to humankind are not derived from the outside, but are bound up with the development of the individual’s own feeling, thinking, and acting. The genuine artists, investigators, and thinkers have always been persons of this kind. However inconspicuously the life of these individuals runs its course, nonetheless the fruits of their endeavors are the most valuable contributions which one generation can make to its successors."I gather your thesis requires Einstein to be a mindless materialist, and preferably atheist. Though a genius, of course.
Except for the "genius" part, I expect Einstein would hotly contest your theory, were he around today to do it.
I don't know what your intent in writing was here, gcruse. But if you intended to put up Einstein as a model of atheism, I think you're barking up the wrong tree....
Good. And may he hold his peace too.
Unless not. :^)
I am here precisely for that exigency....
Good. And may he hold his peace too.
Unless not. :^)
I am here precisely for that exigency....
Blam has already been driven away from his thread.
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