Posted on 07/08/2007 4:56:55 PM PDT by narses
VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday removed restrictions on celebrating the old Latin Mass, reviving a rite that was all but swept away by the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council. The decision, a victory for traditional, conservative Roman Catholics, came over the objections of liberal-minded Catholics and angered Jews because the Tridentine Mass contains a prayer for their conversion. ... In addition to Jewish concerns, bishops in France, and liberal-minded clergy and faithful elsewhere expressed concerns that allowing freer use of the Tridentine liturgy would imply a negation of Vatican II and create divisions in parishes since two different liturgies would be celebrated.
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...
I have a whole lot of Latin to learn.
“He claimed that the only valid Latin mass must contain a homily in Latin too.”
Of course, that is completely hokey! Before Vatican II when the Mass was said in Latin, the Epistle, Gospel and homily were all said in the language of the people in the Church! Remember?
ping
Sure you can if you're the Pope and you're making decisions about your church.
People can learn or relearn Latin.
The Gregorian Chants in Latin are mesmerizing.
I doubt that, since it would be in Latin, and the only people who would notice the change would be the Latin-Mass people, and they're not much interested in modernizing the Mass in any way. The missals and books are out there already, with the 1962 version or earlier, and they're unlikely to change them. It's a private cottage industry, and the people pretty much do what they want.
It would be interesting if Rome energetically got into the Tridentine-Mass business again. The difficulty is that the European and American bishops are mostly liberal and lazy, and have people working for them who hate anything old. Because they will not bestir themselves to encourage the celebration of the old Mass itself, the updates to the Mass will likewise not be spread.
Generally what you hear at the old Mass on Good Friday is prayer for the conversion of the Jews. This apparently makes secularized Jews and fallen-away Catholics angry. It's a little hard to understand why, since neither group has a dog in this fight, if you see what I mean. In any case, I've rarely heard "perfidious" or its Latin equivalent.
The lower church in my own parish was recently "wreckovated" so that it's no longer suitable for the TLM. The timing is . . . suspicious.
Of course, there actually is a public school in Brooklyn that teaches Latin. I wonder how this will affect that.
I am amazed at the reaction to this “proclamation” on this a supposedly conservative forum. What we are seeing in the church is the same as what is going on in our government.
Liberalism has polluted both church and state. Liberals take away and then throw us a bone and everyone is so happy. As one who has scars from the battles - a modernist priest told me that if I didn’t accept the changes, that I should find another church. I told him, with as much respect as he deserved, F’ you and walked out. I have fought with priests, bishops and cardinals. I’ve fought in court. Finally, I walked away and let the whole thing go to H*ll in a handbasket.
Now, this clown Ratzinger, who was responsible for all the destruction, is going to give me “permission” to go to a service in Latin. Of course, it has to be the failed liturgy translated back into Latin and some clown who doesn’t know jack will fumble through the service and make a mockery of it. Hurry up, we have to finish in time for the guitar mass.
In the words of the eloquent General MacAuliffe - “NUTS!”
Not true. Latin Masses are still conducted around the world. As only one example tune into the daily Mass on EWTN and see for yourself and that Mass is broadcast around the globe four times a day. Also, the official language of the Church is Latin and every document that the Vatican produces is written in Latin and then translated into the vernacular.
“Now, this clown Ratzinger...”
Sorry bucko, that ‘clown’ is the Supreme Pontiff. I agree with Bp. Fellay, this is a time to rejoice.
When the Priest says “Dominos Vobiscum” you say “Et cum spiritu tuo” There, you’re 70% of the way there...they are saying in Latin what you’ve been saying in English for years.
Yes, you are.
Let me Start practicing the Confiteor that we used to say as an altar Boy while Bowing and staring at the Altar steps Rug!
Confíteor Deo omnipoténti, beátæ Maríæ semper Vírgini, beáto Michaéli Archángelo, beáto Joanni Baptístæ, sanctis Apóstolis Petro et Paulo, ómnibus Sanctis, et tibi, Pater: quia peccávi nimis cogitatióne, verbo et ópere: mea culpa [strike breast] , mea culpa [strike breast] , mea máxima culpa [strike breast]. Ideo precor beátam Maríam semper Vírginem, beátum Michaélem Archángelum, beátum Joánnem Baptístam, sanctos Apóstolos Petrum et Paulum, omnes Sanctos, et te, Pater, oráre pro me ad Dóminum Deum nostrum.
Amen!
***Since then all of the prayers have been changed around, reworded, and most of the Mass is in English,...***
Would you be so good as to give me an example of what prayers have been changed around? I’m serious. I want to learn.
Good job!
You should do something about that bitterness. It’s destroying you.
I know how angry you must feel, because I felt the same way for years. However, you should read what the MP says. The Mass for which general permission is being given is the old one, not a Latin translation of the new one. (The new one, lame though it be, can already be said in Latin, btw, and often is.)
Ratzinger participated in the Council, but he, like many others, thought that the renewal of the Mass that was being considered would be the generalization of things like the restoration of Gregorian chant, perhaps a dialogue mass where the people said the altar boy’s responses, and a few minor changes. He was not one of the Bugnini party and was not powerful enough to have done anything to stop Bugnini. Obviously, nobody else was, either, including Paul VI.
Enjoy this moment, try to find some place that is saying the Old Mass - or some individual priest in your diocese who offers a private Tridentine Rite mass but quietly announces it to the faithful so they can come and participate - and try to get some trust and hope back in your life. Then you can go out and do battle! Finally, after all these many years, we have some support, and I think there is many a layperson and many a priest rejoicing right now.
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