Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
(AP) SALT LAKE CITY -- Mitt Romney said Saturday that criticism of his Mormon religion by rival GOP presidential campaigns is happening too frequently.
“Clearly, any derogatory comments about anyone’s faith—those comments are troubling. The fact they keep on coming up is even more troubling,” Romney said during a fundraising trip in the home state of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Mormon church is one of the fastest-growing religions and claims about 12.5 million members worldwide. But many evangelical Christians in crucial primary states such as Iowa and South Carolina consider the faith a cult.
Romney’s remarks follow an apology from GOP rival John McCain’s campaign for comments about the Mormon church allegedly made this year by a volunteer.
Also recently, Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, issued a similar apology for a campaign worker’s e-mail to Iowa Republican leaders that was an apparent attempt to draw unfavorable scrutiny of Romney’s religion. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani apologized after the New York Sun noted that a campaign aide had forwarded to a blogger a story about unofficial Mormon lore. Legend has it that a Mormon would save the Constitution, the story said. The campaign aide passed the story along with a note: “Thought you’d find this interesting.”
Romney said in a large presidential race there always will be some volunteers or workers who cannot be controlled. But he said the difference between derogatory comments that originated from the McCain campaign and others is that the Arizona senator has not personally apologized to him.
“In the case of Senator Brownback and Mayor Giuliani ... they called immediately. They each spoke with me personally. I don’t have any issue with that at all,” Romney said.
He said McCain “can do whatever he feels is the right thing. There’s no need for me to suggest how people respond to things that go on in the campaign.”
Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, said the McCain campaign has already apologized.
“It’s a very sincere apology. There is absolutely no place for those type of comments in our campaign,” he said.
Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, said he had not spoken with McCain since the last presidential debate, on June 5.
Romney used a fundraiser hosted by Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller to criticize the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law. It banned unregulated, unlimited contributions from corporations, unions and wealthy individuals to national political parties and federal candidates.
“The bill ought to be repealed,” he said. “It’s been the wrong course for American campaigns.”
Romney said he favors unlimited donations as long as they are immediately disclosed on the Internet.
Romney was attending fundraisers in Salt Lake City and in Logan on Saturday.
“LDS doctrine is so far removed from the truth that I cannot trust a person who believes it.”
I agree. How can you trust a person that believes that God was once a man and that men can become gods?
Mormonism has historically taught that the christian church departed from the truth and that they are the true church of Jesus Christ. They are the ones that have opposed and lashed out at my faith. Would Mr. Romney and Mr. Hewitt be willing to declare that the LDS church was wrong in doing this?
You try the same.
"There would be plenty of other good reasons for disqualifying Mr LaVey"
In the #59 hypothetical, I removed all other "good reasons."
Ok, let’s test me to see how far removed I am from the truth. I am a typical Mormon. Please focus on the basics and then let’s go from there.:
1. I believe in God.
2. I believe in the Bible.
3. I believe in Jesus Christ.
4. I believe that were are all a spirit family here on Earth.
5. I believe the moral foundation of our society is the ten commandments.
6. I believe in the God given inalienable rights of all mankind endowed by our creator.
7. I believe in Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
8. I believe in the freedom of religion so long as those rights do not undermine the inalienable rights of mankind.
9. I believe that Jesus Christ will come again to rule upon the Earth. He will visit the Jews and reveal to them that he was their Savior which they killed.
10. I believe in being honest, true, chaste, and benevolent and I feel remorseful when I fall short.
11. I believe that I can’t do it all on my own. On the other hand, I believe nothing is impossible for two people when one of them is God.
That’s a beggining. So far, where is the threat to society? Where is my grip on reality gone? Where is the lunacy? If you criticize my foundational sense of goodness and reason then you undermine at the same time all of other people of good faith. You are unknowling fueling the Christopher Hitchens view of the world.
> Gonna answer #59 directly?
I already did. And for your benefit I will restate my answer in words of one syllable:
His. Faith. Plays. No. Role. In. My. Vote. Choice.
Le. Vey. Was. A. Nut. And. Would. Not. Get. My. Vote.
Do. You. Get. It. Yet?
*DieHard*
I agree! 100, I have problems with Romney on Policy grounds, but as far as his Mormonism: it shouldn’t effect if he is qualifed to lead as President!
(And by the way I am a normal protestant christian)..
I will not get into the mormonism debate here, but they don’t believe the same (theology) as most Christians.
His. Faith. Plays. A. Big. Role. In. My. Vote. Choice.
Romney. Is. A. Nut. And. Would. Not. Get. My. Vote.
Do. You. Get. It. Yet?
No it doesn't. The Bible tells us a simple test for a prophet. If any of their prophecies are untrue, then they are a false prophet (and under Levitical law must be stoned to death . . . tough sanctions in those days for pretending to talk to God when you don't). Deu 18:22 21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
You can put in "false prophecies" and "Joseph Smith" in a search and come up with tons of sites laying them out.
Here are a couple:
David W. Patten to go on a mission.
Verily, thus saith the Lord: It is wisdom in my servant David W. Patten, that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can, and make a disposition of his merchandise, that he may perform a mission unto me next spring, in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto the world. (Doctrine & Covenants 114:1)
This prophecy was made on April 17, 1838. David W. Patten died in October of 1838 and thus never went on a mission the following spring.
Another false prophesy commonly pointed to: The United States Government was to be overthrown in a few years.
I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).
Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.
The one that gets me though, really gets my goat is that Joseph Smith's writings rely on a demonstrably false history -- he wrote that American Indians were actually lost tribes of Israel. Genetic testing, linguistics, archeological evidence all show this to be false.
Don't buy into the worldly view that all religions are the same because they are all poppycock. Christians can prove that Jews lived in Jerusalem for one thing . . . seemingly minor, a bit silly right? Until you look at cult beliefs that posit bizarre historical scenerios that demonstrably never occurred.
Contemporary historians wrote of Christ, Herod, archeological evidence continues to grow (and never contradicts) Biblical accounts, for example it used to be said by secular people that Pontius Pilate was a myth. Then they discovered stones engraved with his name. Etc. Etc. Where Christianity should be supported by evidence it is there. Where Mormonism should be supported by evidence it is not. There is faith, and then there is faith that is counter to reason.
Ok, let’s test me to see how far removed I am from the truth. I am a typical Mormon. Please focus on the basics and then let’s go from there.:
1. I believe in God.
Not the God of the Bible
2. I believe in the Bible.
No, you believe that the Book of Mormon is equal to the Bible and even when the Biblical admonitions against spirits bringing a message that is different than the Bible as spelled out in the Book of Galatians, you choose to believe that Joseph Smith was visited by an angel and given a different gospel than the Bible teaches.
3. I believe in Jesus Christ.
No, you believe Jesus Christ is the brother of Satan, me, and you
4. I believe that were are all a spirit family here on Earth.
Whatever that means, that is surely not a Biblical doctrine
5. I believe the moral foundation of our society is the ten commandments.
The New Testament is the Moral Foundation for a Christian, with the ten sommandments a symbol of man’s inability to honor God through morality and obedience, instead of faith
6. I believe in the God given inalienable rights of all mankind endowed by our creator.
So?
7. I believe in Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
So do liberals.
8. I believe in the freedom of religion so long as those rights do not undermine the inalienable rights of mankind.
So?
9. I believe that Jesus Christ will come again to rule upon the Earth. He will visit the Jews and reveal to them that he was their Savior which they killed.
The Jesus you believe in is not the Biblical Jesus. Plus, you believe that the lost 10 tribes of Israel came here, to the US to live. As a geneological possibility, some of them inbred with American Indians starting back from the 5th century BC when the disapora happened. That means you believe that Indians are part Jewish, at least some of them.
10. I believe in being honest, true, chaste, and benevolent and I feel remorseful when I fall short.
So?
11. I believe that I can’t do it all on my own. On the other hand, I believe nothing is impossible for two people when one of them is God.
Are you God? Where did you get the idea that God is a person? God is Spirit, and that is in the Bible, God is not flesh, and that is in the Bible.
That’s a beggining. So far, where is the threat to society?
Shall we start with the belief in KOLOB?
Where is my grip on reality gone? Where is the lunacy?
Shall we start with the absolute teachings of Mormon leaders who claimed it came from God that MEN LIVE ON THE MOON?
If you criticize my foundational sense of goodness and reason then you undermine at the same time all of other people of good faith. You are unknowling fueling the Christopher Hitchens view of the world.
No, Hitchens is a Marxist.
Jesus saves but what does he saves us from?
Jesus brings us back into the presence of God just like he did for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the other prophets. Do you know not realize that those who lived on Earth continues in a physical form? When Jesus was transfigured on the mount, Moses and Elijah like angels were there, were they not? This is evidence of them minimum that the righteous will exist eternally in the next life with God.
Also, do you not know that first for references of Angel in Hebrew in the Old Testament literally translates to Children of the Most High God? If Moses and Elijah became like Angels or the Children of God then what of others who follow Jesus Christ with all their hearts? Does it not say in Romans that we will become joint-heirs with Christ? Also, what does it say in Revelations with happen to all the righteous on the day of final judgement? Others may answer these questions, but alteast Mormons try to answer these questions with good explanation found within their theology.
> Do. You. Get. It. Yet?
Yup. I. Do.
By. Your. Own. Words. You. Are. A. Big. Got. Who. Can. Not. Let. Church. And. State. Be. Split. By. Law.
That magical "D" does wonders.
I have a book from a woman who was on the Handcart Expedition in the 1800’s: TELL IT ALL: A WOMAN’S LIFE IN POLYGAMY; FANNY STENHOUSE
several thousand died believing Young’s prophecy
when she got to Utah, her husband was ordered to marry a young girl and they moved her into the family house. That younger girl was a direct relative of Brigham Young himself.
That doesn't mean I hate you or Mormons. That doesn't constitute bigotry. It is a simple disagreement about essential christian doctrine.
Oh, and where does this "separation of Church and State" stuff come from, anyway?
Care to go there?
You have a serious lack of understanding on the Bible and Angels.
Angels were created seperately and have no decendants.
As for their appearance, all the redeemed have a new Body, but NOWHERE is there a mention of God the father having a physical form, or that he had a beginning
None of what you mentioned had anything to do with the false doctrine of me, you, Jesus and Satan being literally brothers.
>>>>>
9. I believe that Jesus Christ will come again to rule upon the Earth. He will visit the Jews and reveal to them that he was their Savior which they killed.
The Jesus you believe in is not the Biblical Jesus. Plus, you believe that the lost 10 tribes of Israel came here, to the US to live. As a geneological possibility, some of them inbred with American Indians starting back from the 5th century BC when the disapora happened. That means you believe that Indians are part Jewish, at least some of them
<<<<<
You are mixing things up there with the 10 tribes being scattered, but I will leave that discussion alone. In the Americas it was two of the tribes of Israel plus part of the Tower of Babel which constituted a minority of the total population by the way (see Diffusion Theory of Old Migration).
At any rate, I believe that the 12 tribes of Israel bloodline is found in all of the races of humanity. I rely on Jeremiah 34:17 where God says to Jeremiah that he would witness the scattering Israel to ALL the nations of the Earth! I believe God and I believe he is not liar and that the prophecy of Jeremiah was not false but it was partly fulfilled with the account as laid out in the Book of Mormon.
Apparently what Mitt needs to do is divorce his wife and bed three or four dozen women over the next ten years, and then marry a woman as young as his youngest son.
The he would be join the august company of Christian conservative savior and FReeper heartthrob Fred Thompson.
Apparently what Mitt needs to do is divorce his wife and bed three or four dozen women over the next ten years, and then marry a woman as young as his youngest son.
The he would be join the august company of Christian conservative savior and FReeper heartthrob Fred Thompson.
You don’t know Hebrew. Why does the first four occurrences of Angels translates into Children of God? Can you address that then rather skip it?
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