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To: jude24
The question of whether Joseph Smith was a false prophet depends entirely upon your own presuppositions.

No it doesn't. The Bible tells us a simple test for a prophet. If any of their prophecies are untrue, then they are a false prophet (and under Levitical law must be stoned to death . . . tough sanctions in those days for pretending to talk to God when you don't). Deu 18:22 21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

You can put in "false prophecies" and "Joseph Smith" in a search and come up with tons of sites laying them out.

Here are a couple:

David W. Patten to go on a mission.

Verily, thus saith the Lord: It is wisdom in my servant David W. Patten, that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can, and make a disposition of his merchandise, that he may perform a mission unto me next spring, in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto the world. (Doctrine & Covenants 114:1)

This prophecy was made on April 17, 1838. David W. Patten died in October of 1838 and thus never went on a mission the following spring.

Another false prophesy commonly pointed to: The United States Government was to be overthrown in a few years.

I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).

Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.

The one that gets me though, really gets my goat is that Joseph Smith's writings rely on a demonstrably false history -- he wrote that American Indians were actually lost tribes of Israel. Genetic testing, linguistics, archeological evidence all show this to be false.

Don't buy into the worldly view that all religions are the same because they are all poppycock. Christians can prove that Jews lived in Jerusalem for one thing . . . seemingly minor, a bit silly right? Until you look at cult beliefs that posit bizarre historical scenerios that demonstrably never occurred.

Contemporary historians wrote of Christ, Herod, archeological evidence continues to grow (and never contradicts) Biblical accounts, for example it used to be said by secular people that Pontius Pilate was a myth. Then they discovered stones engraved with his name. Etc. Etc. Where Christianity should be supported by evidence it is there. Where Mormonism should be supported by evidence it is not. There is faith, and then there is faith that is counter to reason.

128 posted on 06/23/2007 5:05:26 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: Greg F

I have a book from a woman who was on the Handcart Expedition in the 1800’s: TELL IT ALL: A WOMAN’S LIFE IN POLYGAMY; FANNY STENHOUSE

several thousand died believing Young’s prophecy

when she got to Utah, her husband was ordered to marry a young girl and they moved her into the family house. That younger girl was a direct relative of Brigham Young himself.


133 posted on 06/23/2007 5:14:40 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
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To: Greg F
You can put in "false prophecies" and "Joseph Smith" in a search and come up with tons of sites laying them out.

Most of them with agendas - and "Googling" isn't data. Additionally, dispensationalist Christianity has been a whole series of false predictions of the End Times (ever read Hal Lindsay's Late Great Planet Earth or someone else's 88 Reasons why Jesus will Return in 1988?) - so Evangelical Christians aren't in a particularly good position to make that argument.

Don't buy into the worldly view that all religions are the same because they are all poppycock.

Never said that. All I said is your presuppositions determine your conclusions - and those presuppositions are rooted in faith, not objective empiricism.

Contemporary historians wrote of Christ

Name one. Josephus' entry on Christ is suspect (widely believed to be a pious forgery). There are a couple of cryptic remarks Seutonius in the early second century - but 75 years after Christ died is hardly a "contemporary historical account." The New Testament and the early Gnostic literature isn't "historical" material, but material by Christian partisans.

Ultimately, Christians believe that Jesus Christ existed based on the authority of the Church, and the witness of Scripture. Those are presuppositions, not conclusions - and the result of faith, not empiricism.

Now - don't get me wrong - I'm not Mormon. But that doesn't mean that I can **prove** Mormonism is wrong. I can demonstrate that Mormonism is inconsistent with historically orthodox Christianity, but that only matters if we assume historically orthodox Christianity is correct.

141 posted on 06/23/2007 5:23:36 PM PDT by jude24
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