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Penalty Mitigation in the Immigration Reform Bill [White House Spokesman Responds: Post #53]
Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2007 | philman_36

Posted on 06/13/2007 6:57:12 AM PDT by philman_36

This morning on Fox and Friends there was made mention that much stricter fines are in the immigration reform bill. While this is true many folks may not know about a few words that follow the language about the tougher fines. Those words make a travesty of any "fines" as they can be waved and the employer could walk away owing nothing in penalties.

Here are the words I've got a problem with...

(D) The Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalties imposed upon employers, based upon factors including, but not limited to, the employer's hiring volume, compliance history, good-faith implementation of a compliance program, participation in temporary worker program, and voluntary disclosure of violations of this subsection to the Secretary.

So while we're being told that "the penalties are tougher" we aren't being told that under some circumstances employers can face reduced or even no fine whatsoever.
At this point of time in our history America can't afford our officials not being completely truthful to us and not stating that the possibility exists for employers to potentially be let off the hook completely is simply unacceptable.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; amnestytroll; beggingforamnesty; blowbackfordubya; deafrino; duncanhunter; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; judicialbypass; nicholasthompson; noamnestyforillegals; nthompsonwhitehouse; sellouts; vampirebill; wontgetfooledagain
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To: GovernmentShrinker; nthompsonwhitehouse
So what was the taxpayers' tab for medical care to illegal aliens in the first quarter of FY07? And for federally mandated access to public schools for the non-citizen children of illegal aliens? Care to share those figures with us (with reliable sources to back them up)?

The Los Angeles Unified School District has an annual budget of over 6 billion dollars.

LAUSD has over 3/4 of a million students.

Of these, 314,641 students were classified as "English learners" in 2006, meaning they were not fluent in English. We may safely infer that these students were most likely immigrants. Of course, they aren't allowed to check for legal residency status.

Let us be generous beyond all hope, and grant that only half of those 314,641 are not entitled to be in this country. That would leave us with 150,000 illegal alien students, or 20% (actual percents are probably over 60%, if you include those who have "gained fluency"). That means that illegal aliens are costing the LAUSD, and therefore California's citizens, $1.2 BILLION DOLLARS every year. Minimum. And that's just for education in one major metro area.

221 posted on 06/14/2007 2:30:08 PM PDT by LexBaird (PR releases are the Chinese dog food of political square meals.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Ask President Bush “Why is he and his helpers trying to destroy America?”.
222 posted on 06/14/2007 2:30:18 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
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To: philman_36

“Illegal” means “unlawful”, not “a sick national bird”.


223 posted on 06/14/2007 2:30:40 PM PDT by rfp1234 (Nothing is better than eternal happiness. A ham sandwich is better than nothing. Therefore...)
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To: philman_36

“So for a $2,000 campaign contribution you can get $100,000 in fines waived.... Not a bad investment.
It’s so easy to figure out even a caveman can do it! LOL”

ROTFLMAO


224 posted on 06/14/2007 2:31:44 PM PDT by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: amihow

I don’t trust either the govt or the shadow govt. (sarcasm tag) They think we are naive bigots. hah! If we were that naive, we’d still be sending donations to the RNC.


225 posted on 06/14/2007 2:32:03 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri's Legacy List Contact: 8mmmauser & REMEMBER TERRI IN CAMPAIGN 2008)
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To: joanie-f

:-)


226 posted on 06/14/2007 2:32:06 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("You will have your bipartisanship." - Fred Thompson, May 4, 2007)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Mr. Thompson,

The problem is that no matter how badly President Bush wants his legacy to include comprehensive immigration reform (a combination of border security and bring illegal workers out of the shadows w/legal status) there is no way that he can overcome the following FACTS about this administration's failure to enforce immigration laws. The President has lost our trust at is pertains to the immigration issue. It will not be regained during his presidency. And it doesn't help him at all to belittle and attempt to marginalize those who are speaking out on this issue.

Fix the following by actually enforcing the laws. Secure the borders. And then a future president may be able to come back to the people and convince us to support some sort of guest worker program and potential legal status for those immigrants who here illegally.

(Stats from the DHS 2004 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, Analysis is mine.)

Employer Investigation Efforts of U.S. Immigration Authorities:

Fiscal Year Worksite Arrests Notices of Intent to Fine
1993 7,630 1,302
1994 7,554 1,063
1995 10,014 1,056
1996 14,164 1,019
1997 17,554 865
1998 13,914 1,023
1999 2,849 417
2000 953 178
2001 735 100
2002 485 53
2003 445 162
2004 159 3

The average annual worksite arrests under Clinton was 9,329 arrests. The average annual worksite arrests under President Bush is 456. This is a 95 percent reduction in average annual worksite arrests under President Bush.

The average annual notices of intent to fine employers of illegal aliens under Clinton was 865. The average under President Bush is 79.5. This is a 90 percent reduction in average annual notices of intent to fine employers of illegal aliens.

And then there is 2004 where, under President Bush, only 3 notices of intent to fine employers of illegal aliens were done. 3!! But that was President Bush's worst year. Let's compare best years then.

Under Clinton his best year for Worksite Arrests was 1997 with 17,554 reported. President Bush's best year was 2001 with 735 worksite arrests reported. This is a 99.7 percent reduction in worksite arrests under President Bush when comparing best years.

Clinton Presidency, Total Aliens Expelled:
1993 1,285,952
1994 1,074,781
1995 1,364,688
1996 1,643,108
1997 1,555,116
1998 1,743,273
1999 1,755,754
2000 1,861,933
Total over 8 years: 12,284,605
Average Annual Total Aliens Expelled: 1,535,575

Bush Presidency, Total Aliens Expelled:
2001 1,432,061
2002 1,084,661
2003 1,076,483
2004 1,238,319
Total over 4 years: 4,831,524
Average Annual Total Aliens Expelled: 1,207,881

The average annual total of aliens expelled under President Bush is 327,694 LESS than the average under President Clinton. That is a 21.3 percent reduction in aliens expelled compared between Clinton and President Bush.

Deportable Aliens located in non-border sectors (interior enforcement):
Clinton presidency, last four years:
1997 44,246
1998 39,096
1999 42,010
2000 32,759
Total: 158,111

Bush presidency, first four years:
2001 30,496
2002 25,501
2003 26,492
2004 21,113
Total: 103,602

Total deportable aliens located in interior sectors during the first four years of the Bush presidency represents a 34.4 percent drop compared to the previous four years - the last four years of the Clinton presidency.

Deportable Aliens Located:
Clinton Presidency first four years:
1993 1,327,261
1994 1,094,719
1995 1,394,554
1996 1,649,986
Total: 5,466,520

Clinton Presidency last four years:
1997 1,536,520
1998 1,679,439
1999 1,714,035
2000 1,814,729
Total: 6,744,723

Bush Presidency first four years:
2001 1,387,486
2002 1,062,279
2003 1,046,422
2004 1,241,089
Total: 4,737,276

Total deportable aliens located dropped by 29.7 percent in the first four years of the Bush Presidency compared to the previous four years - the last four years of the Clinton Presidency.

Sources: DHS Yearbook of Statistics 2004 and other DHS and INS sources.


227 posted on 06/14/2007 2:33:21 PM PDT by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Do you get the feeling that we no longer trust the Bush White House to do what’s best for America with regards to border security and illegal immigration?

Good. We don’t.


228 posted on 06/14/2007 2:33:54 PM PDT by airborne (Airborne - Ranger - Vietnam veteran! Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Mr. Thompson, Please tell everyone in the white house that to get an immigration bill passed that I can support it's going to take time.

Why? because there is NO way that all this can be done at one time. There is no way the government(you)can pull off the miracles you claim. Security and background checks in 24hrs...Please give ma a FRiggin break. Does anyone in the White house not see that all that BS??.

Here's what I see.
1. You tell us 2 years ago your gonna build X numbers of miles in a fence at the border. Then I hear that the number of "funded" miles have been cut. Have we even built a FRiggin mile of this fence??
#2. "Virtual Fence" HAHAHAHAHAHA. Is that like being a "Virtual Millionaire" is it is then I can go buy a new TV for the one that gave up the ghost last night. I suppose the new virtual fence cameras will be watched by the virtual guards that are going to direct the REAL border guards to go apprehend them. Like I said BS. This world still operates on tangible things. Anything else is just more sunshine blown up my skirt. Which by the way I'm really sick of.
#3 In the POS bill we can't deport anyone, even if they have a previous arrest record. What the hell are you people trying to do KILL US ALL. What ever happened real honest to goodness justice? It's not found anywhere in the thing.
#4. I'm not against immigrants, I just want everyone to do it bu our laws that are on the books now.

Just remember this, like the old senator from Georgia said the the DemonRATS...I have not left the Republican Party...THEY HAVE LEFT ME!!!!
229 posted on 06/14/2007 2:38:01 PM PDT by glaseatr (Proud Father of a Marine, Uncle of SGT Adam Estep A. 2/5 Cav. KIA Thurs April 29, 2004 Baghdad Iraq)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
...please know that we intend to penalize these employers strongly

And WHY, just why, hasn't the government been penalizing employers who have been hiring illegals all along?

What's the reason for that oversight?

Or show some goodwill -- show us that the enforcement part will work before the other parts of the bill are brought forward. What is the hurry? Don't you have time to prove the governments word is good on this issue? It hasn't been in the past... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

230 posted on 06/14/2007 2:42:32 PM PDT by GOPJ (Open border Lobbies push for amnesty when borders leak like sieves? Why?(hint:12 million new dems))
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To: holdonnow

You should see this.


231 posted on 06/14/2007 2:45:15 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

To quote F15Eagle

1) BUILD THE FENCE
2) DEPORT ALL ILLEGALS
3) FINE / PROSECUTE EMPLOYERS BREAKING THE LAW
4) INCREASE BORDER PATROL
5) CONTINUE LEGAL IMMIGRATION

This is the job we expect you to do. Thank you.

You would do well to read Free Republic than to just post here.
Now go win the war overseas.


232 posted on 06/14/2007 2:46:03 PM PDT by WhirlwindAttack (nuke em till they glow, then shoot em in the dark.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
For example, a 2005 program, “Operation Rollback,” assessed $15,000,000 in civil fines to employers, an amount greater than the sum of administrative fines collected in the previous eight years and was the largest worksite enforcement penalty in US history.

Operation Rollback was directed at one company, Wal-Mart and netted 300 of 20+ million illegal aliens.

And this wasn't a fine. It was a settlement (read: blackmail) paid by Wal-Mart to avoid criminal charges.

Does everyone in the employ of the White House lie as much as Bush?

233 posted on 06/14/2007 2:46:10 PM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (After six years of George W. Bush I long for the honesty and sincerity of the Clinton Administration)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

If anyone is Washington cannot enforce the laws already on the books to PREVENT the problems, we will replace them with people who CAN, and WILL.

BTW- Please tell President Bush to cease ALL action on his plan for the SPP. It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and the American people do NOT want it.


234 posted on 06/14/2007 2:46:46 PM PDT by eeevil conservative (UNASHAMEDLY AMERICAN MADE and an AMERICA LOVER!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

We don’t need more immigration legislation. The federal government needs to enforce our current laws more forcefully. Creating more immigration legislation will only result in more laws not enforced.


235 posted on 06/14/2007 2:47:59 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax , you earn it , you keep it!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
How about pardons for Ramos and Compeon? They were doing their jobs. And risking their lives for this country.

I stood in the pouring rain for four hours in Ohio back in '04 to cast my ballot for your boss. Sometimes I wonder why.

236 posted on 06/14/2007 2:49:18 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: ruination

Good Lord, that says it all!


237 posted on 06/14/2007 2:50:03 PM PDT by Eaker (Free The Texas 3 - Ramos, Compean and Hernandez)
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To: Species8472; nthompsonwhitehouse

And Mr. Thompson, it is not just money that will be withheld. You won’t have volunteers to stuff envelopes, make yard signs, go door-to-door, man the phone bank and do all the nitty-gritty things that get Republicans elected.

If this bill passed, I promise you, I will not be available to do the aforementioned tasks for any Republican candidate, at any level, be it for a city, county, state or federal office.

LSAggie


238 posted on 06/14/2007 2:50:28 PM PDT by LSAggie
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Poll: Voters Want Smaller Steps to Immigration Reform With Focus on Enforcement
Rasmussen Reports ^ | June 13, 2007

Wednesday, June 13, 2007

Just 20% of American voters want Congress to try and pass the immigration reform bill that failed in the Senate last week. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 51% would like their legislators to “take smaller steps towards reform” while 16% believe they should wait until next year. The survey was conducted on Monday and Tuesday night as the President was publicly attempting to rally support for the legislation.

Sixty-nine percent (69%) of voters would favor an approach that focuses exclusively on “exclusively on securing the border and reducing illegal immigration.” Support for the enforcement only approach comes from 84% of Republicans, 55% of Democrats, and 69% of those not affiliated with either major party.

Overall, just 21% are opposed to the enforcement-only approach.

Just 30% would favor legislation that focused “exclusively on legalizing the status of undocumented workers already living in the United States.” Fifty-seven percent (57%) oppose that strategy, including 63% of Republicans, 52% of Democrats, and 55% of unaffiliated voters.

Fifty-seven percent (57%) favor a proposal giving “all illegal aliens up to three years to leave the United States. After leaving, the illegal aliens would have to get in line and wait their turn for legal entry into the United States.” Support for that concept comes from 67% of Republicans, 49% of Democrats, and 56% of unaffiliated voters.

The Senate immigration reform bill that failed last week was far more popular in Congress than among the American people. It was strongly opposed by a cross-section of the nation’s voters. At the end, just 23% of voters favored the legislation.


Hellooooooooooo White House. The American People DO NOT WANT THIS BILL.


239 posted on 06/14/2007 2:52:54 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (the Prophet said, If (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him. - HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:260])
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

With all due respect, sir, I make this suggestion:

Tell Ted Kennedy, Jon Kyl, John McCain and Mr. Bush to make up a NEW bill. One that would have the following, pertaining to anyone in this country illegally:

1. No more anchor babies
2. No more food stamps
3. No more WIC
4. No more subsidized housing
5. No more free education
6. No more free medical care (except under life threatening circumstances)
7. Penalize employers (who hire illegals) by not only fines, but removal of their business license
8. No one here illegally should be allowed to sue a citizen under any circumstances - therefor, no free legal representation
9. Illegals in jail should pay for their room and board by having them (under guard and ankle bracelets) do the ‘jobs Americans won’t do’ - such as clean up the garbage they left behind at the border)
10. Social Security should report immediately any SS theft, and the thief would be arrested on the spot. SS should work with the government on this problem. IRS sure does!

You take away the ‘freebies’ and they will self deport within one month. Any person from another country that wants to pledge their allegience to our country must do it the legal way. (No ‘cutting in line)

Most of us would endorse and support a bill like that, and we might be able to restore some confidence in the Republican Party.

Thank you for taking the time to read how we feel. This used to be the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. We want it back!


240 posted on 06/14/2007 2:56:10 PM PDT by yorkie
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