Penalty Mitigation in the Immigration Reform Bill [White House Spokesman Responds: Post #53]

Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2007 | philman_36

[philman_36]

This morning on Fox and Friends there was made mention that much stricter fines are in the immigration reform bill. While this is true many folks may not know about a few words that follow the language about the tougher fines. Those words make a travesty of any "fines" as they can be waved and the employer could walk away owing nothing in penalties.

Here are the words I've got a problem with...

(D) The Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalties imposed upon employers, based upon factors including, but not limited to, the employer's hiring volume, compliance history, good-faith implementation of a compliance program, participation in temporary worker program, and voluntary disclosure of violations of this subsection to the Secretary.

So while we're being told that "the penalties are tougher" we aren't being told that under some circumstances employers can face reduced or even no fine whatsoever.
At this point of time in our history America can't afford our officials not being completely truthful to us and not stating that the possibility exists for employers to potentially be let off the hook completely is simply unacceptable.

[Condor51]

Paris Hilton is facing tougher penalties than any of these low life, scum sucking, bottom feeding, gimme-gimme, criminals will ever face.

And that goes double for the Illegals.

[Danae]

With all due respect Sir, why not just take away the tax deductions for employers who hire employees with SSN’s that do NOT match their names? That would IMMEDIATELY end the hiring of Illegals! It seems to me that it would ALSO end the massive influx illegals, as the jobs they have come to Illegally fill will no longer be available to them!

Why not take the simplest solution to the problem? Why do we have to make such a maddeningly simple problem into a something more resembling something the cat puked up???

Make it part of the Law, Tax ID’s must match Names and other identification in order for employers to deduct employee wages as expenses and, blamo, end of problem! Illegals would be out of work and on their way home with their dependents who are sucking the life out of us, AND it would stem the tide of Illegals trying to ENTER the country as well. Its a pathetically SIMPLE solution! Take that and watch the President’s poll numbers SOAR, and watch the GOP win in 08 in a LANDSLIDE.

[VRWCmember]

Mr. Thompson,

Thank you for taking the time to share this information. I think it is safe to say that a large majority of American citizens would welcome immigration reform if, unlike previous legislation, it started with enforcement and securing the border. Unfortunately, experience has shown that the promised enforcement and security never seems to materialize.

Here are a few of the questions or concerns that I think should be addressed before conservatives or republicans accept this liberal Kennedy legislation:

1. Why should we have any faith in the ability to enforce requirements that illegal aliens pay fines and/or back taxes and comply with the new law when we can’t seem to find the 12 to 20 million illegals currently here and can’t manage to actually deport millions of aliens who have already been ordered deported?

2. Why is a bill even given any consideration at all when fugitive illegal aliens who have been ordered deported but then fled will be given priority paths to citizenship ahead of immigration applicants who have been attempting to comply with our laws? (And how can any republican oppose the amendment that would have eliminated this provision?)

3. Why is it so critical to pass a “comprehensive” bill to legalize criminals who have deliberately violated our border right now rather than securing the border and implementing policies that make illegal immigration less attractive first?

4. Why does the President want to hand a legislative victory to the likes of Kennedy and Reid and Pelosi while they are actively stabbing him in the back, and at the same time criticize many of us who have been his most loyal defenders from the partisan attacks of the left rather than pushing for a workable solution that doesn’t reward people who have violated our laws for years and have the unmitigated gall to demand the right to continue to disregard our laws?

[trooprally]

Welocome to FR. I'm also glad that someone has the backbone to come onto FR and speak to us. I'm also glad that the FReepers posting to you have been civil because there is a lot of anger in FR about this bill.

Hopefully you'll have a reply. A thread would be best so your message doesn't get lost in the hundreds of posts to you.

For a good immigration bill by Chris Core, see below. He's on WMAL, 630AM radio.

Below is his letter:

A few weeks back, Chris offered you, the listeners, the chance to call in and tell him what provisions you think the Senate immigration bill ought to contain. Well, after some organizing and mop-up editing, Chris was able to draft the first ever 630 WMAL Immigration Bill, which he then mailed to South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham. For your viewing pleasure, Chris has posted the bill below. Thanks for your help!

May 21, 2007
Senator Lindsey Graham
290 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington D.C. 20510

Dear Senator Graham,

In your speech in South Carolina last weekend, you said “if you don’t like President Bush’s proposal (on immigration) come up with one of your own.” I took you at your word, and spent three hours on the air on Monday taking calls from my listeners in hopes of writing a better immigration bill. We kept in mind the items that the President says he needs in such a bill. I think my audience did a great job. Please give our bill consideration.

1. Border security must come first. Once the government has secured the border, illegal immigration must be reduced by 98 per cent from present levels for one year, before any other provisions of the law can take effect.

2. During the year of border-testing, the lawful immigration process must be streamlined. All applicants for permanent residency in the United States, currently waiting in line, must be accepted or rejected within one year, with no further immigration allowed until this process is complete.

3. All illegal immigrants shall have one year to register and be given an official I.D. card from the U.S. government. Any illegal immigrant not having registered within that one year period will, upon being discovered, be deported and never again allowed back into the United States.

4. English shall be declared the official language of the United States, and all official federal documents, including ballots, shall be printed only in English. The federal government shall encourage all local governments and businesses to follow the same guidelines.

5. It shall be federal law that proper photo identification must be presented before voting, to ensure that only American citizens vote.

6. The “anchor baby” provisions of the constitution must be eliminated.

ONCE THE FIRST SIX PROVISIONS OF THE BILL HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED, THE FOLLOWING REFORMS CAN BEGIN.

7. Employers can request “guest workers” for jobs that Americans do not want. But, employers will post a bond with the U.S. government for each worker. That bond shall be returned when it is verified that the guest worker has left the United States.

8. Twenty per cent of the wages that “guest workers” earn shall be held in an interesting-bearing account to be paid to them when they return to their home countries.

9. A two per cent tax shall be imposed on all money sent out of the United States by non-American citizens. This tax shall be returned to the local jurisdictions where the money was earned to off-set the cost of the additional immigrants to the local governments.

10. A special two per cent surtax shall be imposed on all “guest workers” in addition to their normal tax obligations. This tax shall also be returned to local jurisdictions.

11. Any company found hiring “undocumented” workers, after the one year registration period, will be fined ten thousand dollars for each violation, and prohibited from participating in the “guest worker” program for five years.

12. Congress shall annually adjust the number of guest workers allowed into the United States.

Senator Graham, I believe that these ideas address the President’s needs and concerns, and are far better than the bill that you are currently considering. You asked for suggestions, please give ours due consideration.

Sincerely,
Chris Core
Host: WMAL Radio
4400 Jenifer St N.W.
Washington D.C. 20015

[reagan_fanatic]

I fully understand the President's commitments to his core values, but he is 100% DEAD WRONG about this bill and how to handle the illegal immigration problem!

PLEASE pass word to him that his stance is roundly rejected and will be vigorously opposed not only by the vast majority of FReepers here but by the majority of the American people as well.

The President needs to stop defiling American sovereignty, open his eyes and see the problem for what it really is - a full-scale invasion of our country by people who are openly flouting the laws of our land and driving our state and federal services to the breaking point! We're sick of our politicians not doing anything concrete to fix the problem and we're not going to be silent anymore!

Mr. President - BUILD THE WALL!!

[Condor51]

"I would like to point out that the Secretary is authorized ... blah, blah, blah."

And I would like to point out that the Administration is full of "it".

ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS against the employers and the criminal invaders - aka ILLEGAL ALIENS, or go pound sand.

And if the Administration is not up to enforcing the LAWS, then resign dammit!

[lonevoice]

Interesting. So Thompson may not have any official connection to the White House? Either that, or he joined the WH staff in 2007, and the Staff List hasn’t been updated. If anyone’s verified Mr. Thompson’s official capacity, I’d like to know.

I’ve been pleased to read the mostly civil replies to Thompson from FReepers. With only a few notable exceptions, the replies have been well reasoned and articulated. Bravo to all involved.

However, Mr. Thompson appears to be a drive-by poster, and will likely never read, let alone respond to, these replies. I’d like to be wrong about that.

[hunter112]

Mr. Thompson, by now, you're aware of what those of us in the blogosphere think about the Immigration Reform Bill. I don't envy your job, you were assigned to convince us that there was enforcement, now you've got to decide to tell the President just how we all feel.

Let me make it easier on you. Tell him now, so that he can drop this whole thing, or let him persist in his ignorance. Then, when we show up at rallies for people he's supporting next year in their run for office, he can be very surprised at how far we're going to go to embarass him, and anybody he campaigns with.

When they go back to find out how he was so clueless, they can either find an "I told you so" letter from you in the file, or they can make you the fall guy.

Your choice, Mr. Thompson. I'm pretty sure I know another man named Thompson who would want to know the truth.

[theDentist]

Sir, I'm guessing that your lack of responses is primarily because of the deluge of replies you've received to your posting, and not because you're practicing a hit-and-run Public Relations campaign, si?

As my Dad once said to me:
"You can sugarcoat sh** all you want, we're not biting."

[VRWCmember]

You posted your comment around 1:30 PM (Washington DC time), and after over 3 hours you have not responded to a single reply. This forum is all about dialogue and discussion. You will not win anyone over to your position if you post and run and refuse to engage in a conversation. “Engaging the blogosphere” does not mean posting a message and hoping that the readers will be convinced; it means posting, reading, and replying to others.

[dragnet2]

We were told time and time again it's not practical to round up 20 million illegal aliens for what ever reasons.

Fact is the Federal Government is paid, and is their sworn duty to secure our borders. Period. You are not doing that, and have not done that.

In fact, those of you in D.C. have actually encouraged this lawless violent invasion.

Yet we are forced to continue to pay you and the Federal Government our tax money for a job that is not being done.

I'm just curious, if 25 million citizens decided they no longer want to pay taxes because the federal government is not doing their job, would it be impractical to round them up to? Would the government just ignore them too? Would they be given free benefits, medical care etc?

[kara37]

If the president wanted, he could completely seal the borders today.
He has not done it, because he does not want to do it. That will not change by giving 12-20 million people amnesty.

[kidd]

Sir,

I am not open to any immigration reform until our borders are secure. Authorization has been given to build several hundred miles of fence. Authorization has been given to hire additional border security personnel.

Please complete your legal obligations first.

This should be the only immigration goal of the Bush administration: to secure the border.

Thank you for listening.

[TLI]

Hello, Nicholas Thompson
White House Office of Strategic Initiatives

Read this now…

"Mission accomplished," "Bring it on," "Wanted: Dead or alive," and of course, "I earned ... political capital, and now I intend to spend it," he has added "I'll see you at the bill signing,"

The "I'll see you at the bill signing” that Bush proclaims “is not dead " is too stupid for words and is making the speculation of a hidden agenda VERY credible. In fact, I, as many here, would no longer believe any theory to the contrary.

So... if the President does not pull back now and comply with the will of the people AND his own party (because they still have to answer to the voters) then there can be no other logical conclusion than the President does have a hidden agenda, it is not in the interests of American Citizens and the demonstration of total distain for the will of the people in the form of government proclamations that are not "from the consent of the governed" will cause MAJOR upheaval in the very structure of our government.

The total distain by the current administration for the will of the people in the form of government proclamations are also pointing to the exact organizations and individuals that are controlling the President. And control it is because everyone, right down to the dummies at DU can see that no matter how many times the President tries to tell everyone “this is not amnesty” no one believes him because right there in the bill IS AMNESTY!. You even spell out that it is amnesty while trying to say it is not!

..from FOX news TODAY!

The base immigration bill seeks to tighten border security, put an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants on a path to permanent residency

What is the Presidents motivation to lie?

What kind of fools are you people?

Are you inventing a new level of low in backstabbing pond scum?

Do you, or anyone among you really think ANYONE believes you any longer? This administration has not a single shred of credibility left.

You guys are soooooooo voted out.

[VRWCmember]

"If you had a traffic ticket and you paid it, you're not forever a speeder, are you?" White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said in response to questions from The Examiner.

I suppose that if you had a traffic ticket and you sped away after getting it, and you sped to the courthouse for your day in court, and then sped to the bank to withdraw the money to pay the fine, and then sped back to the courthouse, and then sped away after paying the fine you ARE STILL A SPEEDER.

[50mm]

First, welcome to FR.

Sorry. Not buying this amnesty garbage.

Build the wall.

Enforce the laws.

Come back and talk when there’s verifiable proof of enforcement.

[Nickname]

That’s a great question and one that I would like an answer to.

How would the government respond to cities and churches who declare themselves sanctuaries to tax evaders? The same way they’ve responded to those declaring themselves sanctuaries to illegal aliens?

Laws either mean something or they don’t. Which is it?

[abner]

Nice post.

As much as right now I feel that Bush has betrayed our country with Campaign Finance and now this shamnesty stuff.

I still thank God that it isn’t Gore or Kerry...

But, at the moment, that is small comfort.

[PatrickF4]

Stiffer penalties? Oh, now that makes it all sooo much better... As if any penalty would ever be paid... hahaha

[Uncle Miltie]

Enforce the Law, Executive Branch.

Convict and imprison employers who break the law.

Show up at every Home Depot in the country, and deport the illegal immigrants who are standing there.

Enforce the border.

These actions are all required of you by the last “Immigration Reform” of 1986, and have never been done.

Don’t ask us to swallow another “Immigration Reform” when the enforcement of the last one NEVER OCCURRED.

We don’t trust you.

- A Former Bush Supporter.