Prostitutes and Politics Why is it still illegal to pay for sex?

Reason Online ^ | May 7, 2007 | Cathy Young

[Lusis]

The resignation of Randall Tobias, the chief of the Bush administration's foreign aid programs, for "personal reasons" following the revelation that he had engaged the services of two escort-service workers has provided rich grist for amusement on the punditry circuit. There was indeed plenty of material for humor in the situation, from Tobias's strong stand in favor of abstinence teaching in AIDS prevention programs to his "I didn't inhale"-style assertion that he never had sex with the women. But the predictable laughs have obscured a much larger issue than hypocrisy in the ranks of social conservatives. The reason Tobias's call-girl adventures became public is that the owner of the Washington, DC-based service, Pamela Martin, is facing prosecution and has turned her records over to news organizations to help pay for her legal defense.

Even those who feel a certain schadenfreude at Tobias's downfall should be asking the question: should there have been a criminal case in the first place?

[LetsRok]

You don’t pay for the sex. You pay for them to leave. It is not considered prostitution if you set up a video camera. It is then an “adult movie” set.

[JamesP81]

The foudning fathers based our nation upon the requirement of a republic to support and foster virtue, as well as to protect rights and liberties.

That hasn't worked well. People who are compelled to be virtuous because of law aren't actually virtuous. I suppose by your standards, adultery and homosexuality should be illegal.

Actually, the both of you are at least somewhat right. Government is instituted among men to secure rights and liberties. See the Declaration of Independence; it says as such in plain language. However, our government and society cannot function without people of virtue in it. Or, as John Adams said, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Our government depends on people of virtue and, frankly, depends on the Church to be society's moral conscience. The Forefathers understood the necessity of this, which is why much of our legal code is firmly rooted in Judeo-Christian ehtics, as it should be. Unfortunately, we are now in this situation where libertarians have difficutly advocated limited government type positions without also helping those who would use their freedom for immorality and debauchery. The Church, seeing this happen, feels obligated to do something to stop it, and since big government is the flavor of the century, mistakenly turns to legislation on some issues to solve it.

You know, people didn't use to smoke crack, get divorced, or committ adultery as frequently as they do now. There was a time when that stuff was socially stigmatized. This was a good thing. Now that that stigma is lost, I'm not sure we can ever get it back.

Libertarians might be right on the function of government, but they don't help their own cause, especially on the abortion issue. It's hard to take seriously someone who talks about liberty and securing rights when they'll allow someone to deprive a totally innocent person of his life through the barbaric act of abortion.

On the other hand, we in the Church have our own problem. At some point, society told the Church it shouldn't involve itself in anything political. The Church incorrectly interpreted the verse about 'rendering unto Caesar' and did as it was told. By doing so we've surrendered our moral authority, one of the threads that holds our republic together. Drugs were legal in this country up until the 20th century, but we didn't have a drug problem. Why? Because it was so looked down upon by society, and rightly so, that few people did it. When the Church gave up the moral authority to stigmatize sinful behavior, we did the greatest disservice we could to this republic and now, it will take nothing short of an act of God to restore that.

[going hot]

and you dont even get a reacharound

[JamesP81]

How is it false or anti-American?

Moral relativism is the epitome of mush-mindedness; something that all real Americans rightly shun.

For instance, how immoral is pre-marital sex?

Very.

Should we deport the majority of young people because they aren't conforming to the "no sex before marriage" notions, and hence they are anti-American?

No. Since two people having sex, even the immoral kind, doesn't harm either party, the government shouldn't step in (although a very good argument could be made that any resulting child is being harmed by not being in a good family environment, but I'll let this one go for now). What should happen is the Church should explain to people why it's wrong, and put such a social stigma on it that people won't do it. Our political leaders shouldn't put such people into a jail cell, but they ought to comment on how shameful it is that someone would use their liberty to committ acts of immorality. But that would require honest politicians with good hearts, and we're running a little short these days...

[JamesP81]

Why do you think that the founding fathers warned that instruction in religion and the will to be moral are fundamental to the survival of the American republic?

Well stated, and a belief strongly held by our forefathers. See the John Adams quote I put in one of my other posts.

[Eric Blair 2084]

When they came for the drinkers during Prohibition, I did not speak out, as I was not a drinker.

When they came for the employees of the oldest profession in the world, I did not speak out, as I had no interest in purchasing sex.

When they came for the purveyors of what was deemed to be "obscene" or "offensive", I did not speak out, as I was not a fan of entertainers like Lenny Bruce or Howard Stern.

When they came to ban the female mammary gland from TV, I did not speak out, because Brian Boitano told me not to.

When they came for the marijuana smokers, I did not speak out, as I was not a marijuana smoker.

When they came for the steroid users, I did not speak out, as I was not a steroid user.

When they came for the _______ (insert nominally objectionable behavior here), I did not speak out as I was not a _________ (fill in the blank).

When they came for the pornographers, I did not speak out, as I was not a pornographer.

When they came for the people who don't wear seatbelts, I did not speak out, as I always wore my seatbelt.

When they came for the gun owners, I did not speak out, as I was not a gun owner.

When they came for the gamblers, I did not speak out, as I was not a gambler.

When they came for the cigarette smokers, I did not speak out, as I was not a smoker.

When they came for the overweight and the obese, I did not speak out, as I was not overweight or obese.

When they came for the drinkers (again), I did not speak out, as I was not a drinker.

Then they came for me...and there was nobody left to speak out.

[Eric Blair 2084]

I assure you my righteous, pious brethren...there is no prostitution in the USA. This is nothing but lies spread by evil libertarians. It is forbidden in the Koran and Brian Boitano and your religious right, may allah praise their name, has forbidden it in America. We have already roasted the stomaches of the pimps, johns and hookers of America at the gates of Hell. We have crushed the whole force which dared to venture there. Now they're outside the wall and the heroic Republican Guard is now in control of the whole situation. . . . So where are those villainous Americans who pay for sex?

[Dasaji]

Man has always paid for sex. One way or another.

Sometimes dearly.

Sheesh - how ELSE could I get the kitchen remodeled??? (DUH)

[unspun]

Therein lies the rub, yes? Even Christians can't agree among themselves what "God has clearly told and demonstrated to us in His word." Big picture things, yes---perhaps---but plenty of people, on both sides, have died for much less.

Yet, based on God's Word, we've come up with the most wonderful social contract in world thousands of years, or perhaps ever. It's there, in black in white. People can interpret in their own ways, but approaching it in humility takes care of that.

And yes, obfuscation of the truth is no argument.

[unspun]

Yes, virtue supports liberty. A virtuous government for a virtuous people. I certainly wouldn’t have it to be the opposite.

There is no mutual exclusivity between virtue and the support of rights, although rights depend upon virtue, lest rights be unfortunately relinquished to either chaos or the need to generate order virtuously out of it.

Madison’s quote, “if men were angels” applies. It is not by accident that Adams and Jefferson agreed that the works of Algernon Sidney were as important or moreso, than those of John Locke, to the founding of America.

[Clemenza]

It is illegal, but not 100% illegal. You can pay a woman for “companionship” legally, and anything she agrees to afterward is merely consensual. This is why is is difficult for the authorities to prosecute escort services in court on charges other than tax evasion, unless said services were stupid enough to advertise sex outright.

[Clemenza]

“The only difference between free sex and paid sex is that free sex is more expensive.” -— Clemenza’s father.

[unspun]

Appreciate your observations.

BTW, rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar, means that we in America, since we are Caesar, will do our best even there, in responsibility to God. We are mandated to “do our work as unto God.” Doing that which is well done for God is the best way to accomplish anything for oneself.

[mkjessup]

Yeah, whatever.

[wentali]

When they came for

We already know what happens. If one outlaws all 'Vices', the result is a society like Islam.
(Theory : If you Allow all your bodies desire, you will end up homeless. If you Refuse all your bodies desire, you end up dead. - take your pick)

[traviskicks]

Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.

[grey_whiskers]

Anti-prostitution Sarcasm Torpedo ARMED. FIRE!!

A quote from the inimitable P.J. O'Rourke,
in the Ecology chapter of All the Trouble in the World:

..."If recycling is so great," said Jerry, "how come no private individual will pay you to do it?"
"Sex is great," I said, "and no private individual will pay me to do that." Jerry said he wasn't surprised.

Full Disclosure: Cathy, please send photo and pics. ;-)

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

Prostitution is nothing more than sex and commerce.

You forgot the adjectives which qualify the nouns.

Try the following quote:

It is like having a morality in which stealing fruit is considered wrong -- unless you steal nectarines.

And if you protest against this view you are usually met with chatter about the legitimacy and beauty and sanctity of "sex" and accused of harbouring some Puritan prejudice against it as something disreputable or shameful. I deny the charge. Foam-born Venus . . . golden Aphrodite . . . Our Lady of Cyprus . . . I never breathed a word against you. If I object to boys who steal my nectarines, must I be supposed to disapprove of nectarines in general? Or even of boys in general? It might, you know, be stealing that I disapproved of.

The real situation is skillfully concealed by saying that the question of Mr. A.'s "right" to desert his wife is one of "sexual morality". Robbing an orchard is not an offense against some special morality called "fruit morality". It is an offense against honesty. Mr. A.'s action is an offense against good faith (to solemn promises), against gratitude (toward one to whom he was deeply indebted) and against common humanity.

From C.S. Lewis, We Have No 'Right To Happiness'

Full Disclosure: Reading your comments on this topic causes me to consider the possibility of double entendres in your tagline.

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

I have yet to hear a legal / moral rebuttal to that.

You must not be married. :-D

(Yet.)

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!

I say to you again, well PLAYED, sir!

Cheers!