Frankly, I have never thought about the issues he brings up from the angle he discusses.
And, YES, I have heaped verbal brickbats upon "RINOS" in the past with the same vitriol some of you recently heaped upon me and others who are supporting a Giuliani candidacy for reasons that have been discussed on the Rudy threads.
Please - we do not need a repeat of that here.
This thread is not about Rudy, but about the though-provoking analysis that Common Tator penned above, just before the 2002 election.
So let's refrain from name-calling, and discuss his points rationally.
I hope that is still possible around here.
This is my attempt to return the discussion to a more civilized level.
Lets discuss ideas instead of personalities.
Does he make some good points? I have to admit that I believe he does.
Especially the point that the way to gain power is to include RINOS in the party, knowing that once we have a majority the more conservative party leadership will follow a more conservative course.
Common Tator was definitely correct about one thing: The 'Rats learned this lesson long ago - as we just saw in 2006; they elected a bunch of new 'DINOS' like Jim Webb - who will give the true leftists the majority votes to implement the leftists agenda.
Seems to me it wasn't so long ago that RR basically did the same thing for the conservatives - in his first term to be precise.
It seems to be a historical lesson lost on some of the "I'll take my marbles and go home if I don't like a candidate crowd."
I'll repeat what I said earlier - until 2006 I was as equally dismissive of the RINOS as any of you were.
Could it be, however, that we got so complacent with our electoral successes, 1994-2004, that we lost sight of the forest for the trees?
Kindly ping whoever you believe would be interested in this discussion.
And lets try to get this thread as much attention as the flame-throwing threads we've seen lately - and right the tone of discourse here on FR for everyone.
Once again, if you come here to continue the verbal donnybrook of the other threads, you're doing a disservice to FR.
Please lets discuss these point rationally.
Thank you.
You could also ask "IS DRIVING CONSERVATIVES OUT OF THE GOP GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY? THOUGHT-PROVOKING MUST-READ FOR RUDY-LOVERS."
Lets discuss the ideas he submits for consideration instead of personalities.
I don't keep ping lists, but I'd wager most of the folks on the earlier threads would find this one of interest (or irritation ;>)
So feel free to ping whoever you think might want to chime in.
Thanks as always.
Amen Amen Amen
Great post. It is thought provoking and makes sense. Common Tator's last post was about a month ago. Hopefully he'll be around. I enjoy reading his posts.
Why is it that everyone wanting to appease or retreat calls their opinion the rational or sane answer?
Yeah, I hate when people name-call like using 'Rudy-Haters' or something. I hope this thread does not deteriorate into that....
Great Post, Al, I'm sending it to my "RINO hater" local Republican committee today!
Regards, Ivan
Common Tator was a precursor to the Rooty Tooty Fresh 'n Fruity crowd.
I'm not surprised you'd find common cause with him.
Are you sure you're not him?
ping
This part is untrue. People self-identify as conservatives at a rate nearly double that of liberals.
To win control a party must keep its base and get over half the middle.
Well, duh.
The question is: can you keep the base with a candidate the base finds abhorrent?
It's all a question of balance, so you have to find a consensus candidate who can appeal to the various wings of the party. It would seem to me, and many others, self-evident that Giuliani cannot be that person, but many still believe he can.
The fact that I do not want Rudy to be President of the United States does not make me a Rudy-Hater, or a hater of any kind. It does make me a principled conservative, not willing to compromise that which I will have to answer for in the next life.
Good luck with this post Al! I hope you get some straight answers but from the look of thinks they will stick to their regular ranting about Rudy.
Getting RINOs out of the GOP sounds good for the Party and the Country. Strength in 1994 took the Party from a weak, back-seat position to a leadership one. Being weak now puts us in the trunk.
Common Tator can write well, but his argument does not hold water.
It is based on his own opinions of the electorate. Real pols show that a majority of american hold conservative views (sorry, I dotn have a source, offhand) and so it follows that a clear conservative voice always wins. (Witness Renaldus Magnus and Newt Gingrich in 2002)
Yes it is.
Simply
America should have two different parties for choice.
RINOs turn the GOP into Democrats.
RINOs make elections win-win for liberals.
RINOs are bad for the America.
If Bush couldn't drive me away from the Republican Party, some hot-heads on the Internet sure as hell won't.
BTTT! I would, however, don your asbestos suit, as I'm sure there will be many FReepers who will be quite "insulted" by your (and CTs) points here.
Now, you expect the same forbearance and team play for a candidate who is opposed to the positions that we hold inviolable? You really think that's going to happen with this political world turned upside down?
And let's be clear. It's the Republican Party who is doing the turning.