Posted on 02/28/2007 7:54:19 AM PST by Al Simmons
Wedge Issues Posted by: Common Tator in FreeRepublic.com April 16, 2002
The one thing that amazes me on this site is the belief by some that the conservative position is the majority position.
Mostly people tend to believe it could be the majority position if the right candidate ran, or if it weren't for the media or RINOs or etc, etc. They really don't have a clue.
Roughly 2/3 of the public has firm views. They have made up their minds and do not change them. This group is nearly equally split between the left and the right.
There are about a 1/3 of the population that is never sure. Sometimes it will go left and sometimes it will go right.
When a party restricts itself to its base it will be in a minority party. The "base only" party will be reduced to crying as the other side works its will. In some nations both the left and right restrict themselves to just their base. That nation then develops five or six parties. And all governments in that nation are coalitions of a major party and some of the minor parties. In that situation the minor party always has more influence than its numbers represent. For the Rino and Dino haters that is the worst of all worlds.
Many of Rino and Dino haters try to make ours a 3 or 4 party system. They never figure out that their splinter right or left party would never get much power in a government based on coalitions. They are too small. It is the centrist parties that have a 1/3 of the public as potential members that get the clout in the Multi Party system. As you can see in a 2 party or a 5 or 6 party system the center tends to prevail.
But in our two party system the center is an instrument the major parties use to enact their goals. In the multiparty system it is the center parties that use the right and left to enact their centrist goals. Such a system like those in Italy and France are RINO and DINO paradise.
This nation now and for all of the last 140 years has been roughly 1/3 left, 1/3 right and 1/3 in the middle. Those in the middle who run for office are what we call RINOs and DINOs.
When Republicans drive RINOs out they leave the party to become DINOs and take their political power with them. The Democrat party gets them by default.
Then the Democrats thanks to its Dino buddies have a veto proof house and senate. It was Barry Goldwater's greatest accomplishment. In my BRAIN I knew Barry would elect a lot of DINOs ... and he did.
If a party with most of the center wins the presidency too, they have a filibuster proof senate. That party then can do anything it wants to do. When the party leadership takes control they implement the parties core beliefs. It was what LBJ did after Goldwater drove all the RINOs into LBJ's camp. It let LBJ do the "Great Society." LBJ had to have Barry's help to do it. And Barry did what it took to give LBJ the support he needed... LBJ had all the left. Barry gave him all the center.
To win control a party must keep its base and get over half the middle. If the Republicans have more RINOs than the Democrats have DINOs the Republican agenda prevails. If the Democrats have more DINOs than the Republicans have RINOs the Democrat agenda prevails.
Those that demand the defeat of RINOs are doing all they can to enact the leftist agenda. They are the most valuable asset the left has. One of the most effective tactics in politics in the negative campaign.
Negative campaigns are not about getting votes for your candidate. They are about getting the other side's base to not vote for their candidate. Thus if you can get the right to vote against a Rino or not vote at all, you can elect a very liberal candidate.
If you can force the Republicans to nominate a right wing candidate so right wing he can't get the center voters, you elect the left candidate.
That's hilarious. The Illinois GOP foisted Obama upon the nation. Their guy was such a loser that they had to ask Keyes to come to Illnois to run some kind of opposition against Obama.
You can't even make a coherent lie.
Your statement is 100% inaccurate, false, erroneous, and specious.
I didn't realize Hillary was for the Iraq War or the troop surge, or that she was pro-life, and a staunch defender of the 2nd Amendment. Obama too for that matter.
Why hell, I was thinking it was just the opposite.
I think you have a point. Maybe our conservative agenda is all backwards. Upside down even.
Maybe we should be supporting the Democrats instead. Maybe we were better of with Harriet Miers afterall. Perhaps John Roberts is too far out of the mainstream.
ABC News/Washington Post Poll. Feb. 22-25, 2007. N=1,082 adults nationwide. Fieldwork by TNS. Results below are among leaned Republicans. |
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. |
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"If the 2008 Republican presidential primary or caucus in your state were being held today, and the candidates were [see below], for whom would you vote?" Names rotated |
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. |
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2/22-25/07 | 1/16-19/07 | 12/7-11/06 | ||||
% | % | % | ||||
Rudy Giuliani |
44 |
34 |
34 |
|||
John McCain |
21 |
27 |
26 |
|||
Newt Gingrich |
15 |
9 |
12 |
|||
Mitt Romney |
4 |
9 |
5 |
|||
Mike Huckabee |
2 |
1 |
- |
|||
Tommy Thompson |
2 |
1 |
2 |
|||
Sam Brownback |
1 |
1 |
1 |
|||
Chuck Hagel |
1 |
- |
- |
|||
George Pataki |
1 |
2 |
3 |
|||
Ron Paul |
1 |
1 |
n/a |
|||
Jim Gilmore |
- |
1 |
n/a |
|||
Duncan Hunter |
- |
- |
1 |
|||
Tom Tancredo |
- |
1 |
- |
|||
None of these (vol.) |
2 |
2 |
6 |
|||
Wouldn't vote (vol.) |
1 |
1 |
- |
|||
Unsure |
4 |
9 |
9 |
|||
. |
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Without Gingrich (recalculated, based on second choice of Gingrich voters): |
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. |
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2/22-25/07 | ||||||
% | ||||||
Rudy Giuliani |
53 |
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John McCain |
23 |
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Mitt Romney |
5 |
|||||
Sam Brownback |
2 |
|||||
Mike Huckabee |
2 |
|||||
Tommy Thompson |
2 |
|||||
Chuck Hagel |
1 |
|||||
George Pataki |
1 |
|||||
Ron Paul |
1 |
|||||
Tom Tancredo |
1 |
|||||
Jim Gilmore |
- |
|||||
Duncan Hunter |
- |
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None of these (vol.) |
2 |
|||||
Wouldn't vote (vol.) |
1 |
|||||
Unsure |
5 |
|||||
|
Zogby America Poll. Feb. 22-24, 2007. N=397 likely Republican primary voters nationwide. MoE ± 5.0. |
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. |
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"If the Republican primary for president were held today, for whom would you vote: [see below]?" |
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. |
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2/22-24/07 | 1/5-9/07 | 12/6-8/05 | ||||
% | % | % | ||||
Rudy Giuliani |
29 |
21 |
17 |
|||
John McCain |
20 |
17 |
19 |
|||
Mitt Romney |
9 |
6 |
2 |
|||
Newt Gingrich |
7 |
8 |
4 |
|||
Condoleezza Rice |
7 |
7 |
12 |
|||
Sam Brownback |
4 |
1 |
1 |
|||
Tom Tancredo |
1 |
n/a |
n/a |
|||
Duncan Hunter |
1 |
- |
n/a |
|||
Tommy Thompson |
- |
2 |
n/a |
|||
Chuck Hagel |
- |
1 |
1 |
|||
Mike Huckabee |
- |
1 |
1 |
|||
Someone else |
4 |
5 |
4 |
|||
Unsure |
19 |
23 |
26 |
|||
Jeb Bush |
n/a |
7 |
4 |
|||
George Pataki |
n/a |
1 |
1 |
|||
Fred Thompson | n/a |
1 |
1 |
|||
Bill Frist |
n/a |
n/a |
3 |
|||
George Allen |
n/a |
n/a |
3 |
|||
Tim Pawlenty |
n/a |
n/a |
2 |
|||
Rick Santorum |
n/a |
n/a |
- |
|||
Haley Barbour |
n/a |
n/a |
- |
|||
Mark Sanford |
n/a |
n/a |
- |
|||
|
Repeating the truth. The Alan Keyes conservatives are extremists and will never win anything.
That's not surprising.
That should be interesting.
Yes and EV has already said that he is *saving* the GOP. LOL
Yep. Have you figured out why Ted Kennedy hates it?
Yes, he will; after his supporters knock off all the competition, you see, he will ride right in with his black felt cowboy hat and save the party from all the unsavory RINOs.
Dr. Keyes shot his bolt electorally by going to Illinois. The Illinois GOP shot themselves twice over - first by ditching Jack Ryan in a particularly messy way, next, by getting an out of state candidate. This is not just ending one's political career, it's pouring concrete over the tomb.
Dr. Keyes can make a contribution, but it is not through running for office - he was at his best when he was doing his radio programme.
Regards, Ivan
At the very least.
*************
I guess this is that much touted "civility" to which you Rudy-supporters keep referring. How quaint.
I am supporting nobody.
But you should try the real world.
Makes me wonder what their real endgame is - its obviously not victory.
OK....I respect that, and i want you to equally respect my position which is based on what i think is the wisdom of history.
We, and I use the collective "we" meaning Republicans, have a long history of growing pains and political mistakes. The other side, the "they", have a equal if not longer saga that we exploit.
The democrats made the very same mistake that we are making now, when we exploited their arrogance and the resulting House Banking Scandal. This caused them to self destruct from within and we took all their territory, as you well know.
But then we became arrogant, and they exploited our error. They now have us on the defensive and we are self destructing from within, just as they did.
They gathered themselves together by simplifying their credo and they launched a political war against bush and everything they chose him to represent.
one of those representations is Social conservatism which they have successfully boxed up nice and neat and labeled dangerous and EVIL.......Just ask the people of Missouri what happened when Rush Limbaugh got into the stem cell debate. What happened in New Mexico as we attacked our own president and shelved the Immigration bill? What happened to Santorum and co. as a result of his stupid attempt to usurp States rights, a direct violation of long held Republican beliefs?
State after State after State held primary elections where the party was infighting, but that was not the problem. the problem was that when the general election was held, the party remained split like rotten log. it did not come back together as it should have, because the issues were not political, they were emotional and divisive.
So now, you give me that same list of issues, and you expect a different result because we were not somehow Conservative enough to win!
I respect your opinions on all of these issues, and I share many of them, but they do not belong in the political debate at election time during the general election. They need to be put aside after the primary and the elections cannot be solely based on this sort of social argument.
Even the immigration debate, having failed to sell it's self as a national security issue, became nothing more that a repeat of the hundred year old divisions regarding immigrants and the populations that they reside in. It was joined by every riff-raff advocacy group from skin heads to Azatlan nut cases, and it destroyed the legitamacy of the debate by connecting us to these groups. You know this because you saw it happen in our Arkansas FReeper group.
Speaking of Arkansas, I know that few people even know what happened here during the election, but it is sufficient to say that this southern state no longer has a viable Republican Party. We lost everything down to the local mayoral elections, and as a republican, I no longer have anyone to vote for. The ballot is likely to remain blank for the foreseeable future.
Please understand that when I see comments that indicate a repeat of the same tactics used in 2006, for the 2008 elections, it gives me much distress and the reality is that we cannot afford to do that again.
Not unless we have a suicidal wish.
There is a better way to handle this, and you need to listen to the moderates who have their hand on the pulse of this seemingly confused country. It is important that we remain in the game. We must, or the they will run amok and uncontrolled again.
Keyes is a preacher not a politican. And some of his supporters are wannabe preachers. They have little understanding of politics.
No Child Left Behind Ted Kennedy was a major player in the bipartisan team that wrote the controversial No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, which, according to both Kennedy and President Bush, was a compromise. He then worked to get it passed in a Republican controlled Congress, despite the opposition of members from both parties.Ummm...he doesn't oppose it. He wrote it. Liberal Ted Kennedy stands firmly with liberal Rudy Giuliani on NCLB, support for Roe v. Wade, support for partial birth abortion, support for abortion on demand, support for gun control and confiscation, support for gay marriage, support for an openly gay military, support for amnesty for illegal aliens, etc. etc. etc.
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