Not a good testimony for Giuliani, methinks, if these tactics have to be used on his behalf.
Posted on 02/28/2007 7:54:19 AM PST by Al Simmons
Wedge Issues Posted by: “Common Tator” in FreeRepublic.com April 16, 2002
The one thing that amazes me on this site is the belief by some that the conservative position is the majority position.
Mostly people tend to believe it could be the majority position if the right candidate ran, or if it weren't for the media or RINOs or etc, etc. They really don't have a clue.
Roughly 2/3 of the public has firm views. They have made up their minds and do not change them. This group is nearly equally split between the left and the right.
There are about a 1/3 of the population that is never sure. Sometimes it will go left and sometimes it will go right.
When a party restricts itself to its base it will be in a minority party. The "base only" party will be reduced to crying as the other side works its will. In some nations both the left and right restrict themselves to just their base. That nation then develops five or six parties. And all governments in that nation are coalitions of a major party and some of the minor parties. In that situation the minor party always has more influence than its numbers represent. For the Rino and Dino haters that is the worst of all worlds.
Many of Rino and Dino haters try to make ours a 3 or 4 party system. They never figure out that their splinter right or left party would never get much power in a government based on coalitions. They are too small. It is the centrist parties that have a 1/3 of the public as potential members that get the clout in the Multi Party system. As you can see in a 2 party or a 5 or 6 party system the center tends to prevail.
But in our two party system the center is an instrument the major parties use to enact their goals. In the multiparty system it is the center parties that use the right and left to enact their centrist goals. Such a system like those in Italy and France are RINO and DINO paradise.
This nation now and for all of the last 140 years has been roughly 1/3 left, 1/3 right and 1/3 in the middle. Those in the middle who run for office are what we call RINOs and DINOs.
When Republicans drive RINOs out they leave the party to become DINOs and take their political power with them. The Democrat party gets them by default.
Then the Democrats thanks to its Dino buddies have a veto proof house and senate. It was Barry Goldwater's greatest accomplishment. In my BRAIN I knew Barry would elect a lot of DINOs ... and he did.
If a party with most of the center wins the presidency too, they have a filibuster proof senate. That party then can do anything it wants to do. When the party leadership takes control they implement the parties’ core beliefs. It was what LBJ did after Goldwater drove all the RINOs into LBJ's camp. It let LBJ do the "Great Society." LBJ had to have Barry's help to do it. And Barry did what it took to give LBJ the support he needed... LBJ had all the left. Barry gave him all the center.
To win control a party must keep its base and get over half the middle. If the Republicans have more RINOs than the Democrats have DINOs the Republican agenda prevails. If the Democrats have more DINOs than the Republicans have RINOs the Democrat agenda prevails.
Those that demand the defeat of RINOs are doing all they can to enact the leftist agenda. They are the most valuable asset the left has. One of the most effective tactics in politics in the negative campaign.
Negative campaigns are not about getting votes for your candidate. They are about getting the other side's base to not vote for their candidate. Thus if you can get the right to vote against a Rino or not vote at all, you can elect a very liberal candidate.
If you can force the Republicans to nominate a right wing candidate so right wing he can't get the center voters, you elect the left candidate.
Thank you. Thankyouverymuch.
Not a good testimony for Giuliani, methinks, if these tactics have to be used on his behalf.
Appeasement and retreat are insane.
To be fair, Rudy is not merely a RINO, he's a flaming left wing radical who happens to support the WOT.
If the WOT is the only issue that matters, then any of the Republican field is worthy of support.
Hey, 4/16/02 is the date you signed up for FR. That's weird!
With Reagan, it was "Morning in America". With the anti-Rudy folks, it's pistols at dawn.
Regards, Ivan
The thing is, you CLAIM you want to 'elevate the debate', but then you continue to name-call those who disagree with you. (Evidence your title and your post #13.)
That sounds decidedly conflicted.
If "moderate" means playing fast and loose with The Constitution,in the name of expediency, or anything else, I don't want any more "moderate".
"Can't you folks handle the simple fact that most Republicans just simply don't agree with you? Why do you have to try to put on the fake martyr complex?"
Quoted for effect.
'Asked and answered, Your Honor.'
Please re-read post 13.
You have a point there, Ivan. In fact, I'd extend it by saying the rancour in the GOP, intra-party wise, is way more than needs to be.
Absolutely!
But they continue to be in denial, and never will admit it.
The MSM has had their number since shortly after the 2004 elections when they realized that all they needed to do was a bit of teasing and the right wing frog jerking would gain a momentum of it's own and destroy the Conservatives from within.
Their first victory was the Social Security agenda of Bush's presidency and once this was done, the momentum carried into the rest of the entire agenda which has been utterly destroyed and Bush was officially a lame duck, less than one year into his second term. All thanks to the Conservative right.
I don't blame Tator for not posting here. This place is nothing but a echo chamber for the new social conservative movement who have adopted a very odious slash and burn strategy for the coalition and have participated in what will be our biggest defeat ever in 2008.
Hopefully they will get the message then, but I doubt it. I truly fear for the future now, and this has never occurred before in my lifetime. Not even during the height of the cold war. I am now considering efforts to stock up on survival supplies, weapons, and materials so that I might have a self sufficient family compound within two years. There is a logical reason for this.
This country, as a result of the coming domination of the other party by default, will get a severe wakeup call from our various enemies who now see the opening and are colluding for a big move against us. It could destroy our economic base and cause chaos, or at the very least, unleash a global nuclear war. Something that will no doubt be started by a Democrat president.
All this is preventable, or should I say............ was preventable.
The Democrats are not wining by virtue of their quality or quantity. They are wining because "we" are self destructing.
I see no reason to think that anything is going to change in this regard. The political lessons must be relearned by the ignorant and selfish factions of a now broken down political base that not only refuse to compromise with the rest of their base membership, they are trying to control the entire party or failing this, inflict damages..
They will learn it the hard way now. A very expensive lesson in politics 101.
See you at the polls.....
And, of course, you acknowledge bad behavior ONLY one the "Rudy Haters" side.
I fail to see how this Common Tator post addresses any points that we haven't already discussed ad nauseum, and doen't offer any new compelling arguments for conservatives to elect RINOs.
Now that is well said. Leaves you with the conclusion that Giuliani supporters are more interested in advancing the agenda of the flaming left.
You mean #13 where you wrote: "b. There are some posters on the other threads to whom that moniker (Ed: Rudy-haters) fits like a glove." ????
See, in #13, in effect, you were still name-calling people you disagree with.
Ask the mods to change your title, ask them to pull your #13, and you will be going a long way toward redeeming yourself on this thread.
Until then, you're giving us the impression you're behaving like a hypocrite. Elevate your side of the debate before asking your opponents to do likewise.
Wish him well wherever he is.
As to Rudy? Unless and until he mends fences with the NRA/GOA/RKBA crowd he has ZERO chance of getting our vote. He is the consummate gun-grabber. Not sure at this late date, and after so many transgressions he can change our opinion of him.
I wouldn't say that. I *do* think that there are a lot of Republicans out there for whom the only issue is the GWOT, and they have convinced themselves that Rudy is the only Republican who can beat Hillary because, as we all know, she is assured to get the Democrat nomination and if she wins, then this country will fold up and convert to Islam within a month.
There are a lot of other socially-liberal Republicans who are using this view to urge a surge for Rudy, since they can get the socially liberal candidate they've always wanted, but largely been denied by the party as a whole.
I didn't know about this until last week:
In 2000, Mayor Giuliani filed a lawsuit against the gun industry.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1774286/posts
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