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White House slams carpooling, new road fees better (children, minorities hardest hit...)
Reuters ^ | February 12, 2007 | Tom Doggett

Posted on 02/12/2007 1:03:09 PM PST by presidio9

Carpooling won't do much to reduce U.S. highway congestion in urban areas, and a better solution would be to build new highways and charge drivers fees to use them, the White House said on Monday.

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"It is increasingly appropriate to charge drivers for some roadway use in the same way the private market charges for other goods and services," the White House said in its annual report on the U.S. economy.

While some urban areas have designated roads for vehicles with two or more passengers, those high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes are often underused because carpooling is becoming less popular, the administration said.

Based on the latest data supplied by the White House, only about 13 percent of motorists carpooled to work in 2000. That compared with 20 percent of daily American commuters in 1980.

"This trend makes it unlikely that initiatives focused on carpooling will make large strides in reducing vehicle use," the White House said.

Building more highways won't reduce congestion either, unless drivers are charged a fee, according to the administration.

"If a roadway is priced -- that is, if drivers have to pay a fee to access a particular road -- then congestion can be avoided by adjusting the price up or down at different times of day to reflect changes in demand for its use," the White House said. "Road space is allocated to drivers who most highly value a reliable and unimpaired commute."

Critics of such fees argue that road tolls would make new highways reserved mostly for wealthy drivers, who are more likely to travel in expensive, gas-guzzling vehicles.

But the White House said urban road expansions should be focused on highways where drivers demonstrate a willingness to pay a fee that is higher than the actual cost of construction, allowing communities to avoid raising taxes on everyone to build the roads.

The administration argued that congestion pricing is already used by many providers of goods and services: movie theaters charge more for tickets in the evening than they do at midday, just as ski resorts raise lift prices on weekends. Similarly, airlines boost prices on tickets during peak travel seasons and taxi cabs raise fares during the rush hour.


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: beammeupscotty; foryourowngood; fromthegovernment; heretohelp; nonewtaxes; smartgrowth; taxdollarsatwork; tollroads; transportation; youpayforthis
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To: Publius Valerius

I'm going to move to Mexico, renounce my citizenship, and come back. Illegal (oops, undocument) immigrants seem to have more rights when it comes to unquestioned travel these days.

You may still be expected to show ID but it doesn't even have to be genuine.


141 posted on 02/12/2007 2:41:02 PM PST by weegee (No third term. Hillary Clinton's 2008 election run presents a Constitutional Crisis.)
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To: lentulusgracchus

P.S. Since Indiana has leased the toll road, it has earned $112 million in interest--about $7 a second.

Thanks a million, Mitch--or should I say, thanks a $4 billion.

If you'd like to see the to-the-second interest earned on the lease of the toll road, you can go here:

http://www.in.gov/tos/MajorMoves.htm


142 posted on 02/12/2007 2:42:11 PM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: weegee
Or as in the case of Austin Texas, existing highways can be stolen from the public and converted into toll roads.

And you'll never catch me on one unless I'm fleeing a hurricane.

143 posted on 02/12/2007 2:42:28 PM PST by Tall_Texan (NO McCain, Rudy, Romney, Hillary, Kerry, Obama or Gore in 2008!)
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To: SoCalPol

Ouch!
How did the knee replacement work out? Were there any complications? What about pain and movement? The doctor told me ankle replacements are where hip replacements were 25 years ago.
One of the Pastors at my Church had both knees replaced and he said they work great.


144 posted on 02/12/2007 2:43:03 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Alberta's Child
Under those guidelines, tolls could only be charged on roads where travelers were given the option of using a parallel "free" road.

That's not the principle in play, where Rick Perry is doing tolling in Texas. From a TexDoT slide used in their own presentations concerning the NAFTA Highway (NASCO Corridor, Trans-Texas Corridor), one of the ruling concepts of tolling is that for the tolled asset to work, viable non-tolled alternatives -- competition -- has to be eliminated, in order to protect the revenue stream of the toll road operator.

And as a further matter of public record, the head squeeze at Texas DoT has been quoted on the subject of tolling as saying, and I quote, the future of Texas is "Toll roads, or slow roads, or no roads!!"

Nice, catchy, medieval-sounding little slogan, don't you think? You could almost do one of those "Dark Ages" Capital One commercials with that, couldn't you?

145 posted on 02/12/2007 2:44:05 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus

There is nothing more "Marxist" than the notion that a government should provide "free" access to infrastructure regardless of a citizen's ability to pay for it.


146 posted on 02/12/2007 2:44:14 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: SoCalPol

Here it's $1.25 one zone, $2.50 2 zones. Latest figures say that the farebox recovers around 25% of the cost of service.


147 posted on 02/12/2007 2:44:29 PM PST by gogeo
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To: Lion Den Dan
Traffic is indicative of the amount of business being done. When the traffic strangles business, business will move elsewhere. Traffic problem solved. Want business, build roads. Want depression, don't worry about it.

In the case of Houston, the area around the old baseball park has fallen into economic disaster while rent around the new ballpark downtown is booming.

I have to chuckle when I consider that intially Houston's plains for modern rail "had" to go to the old train station. When that fell through, the basball park "had" to be placed there.

Sounds like the first priority was to reuse this decades old property (and the rail excuse has not been cited since).

148 posted on 02/12/2007 2:45:14 PM PST by weegee (No third term. Hillary Clinton's 2008 election run presents a Constitutional Crisis.)
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To: weegee

I believe the original plan was for I35 to be the only non-tolled road in or out of Austin. I live outside of Austin. (FYI)


149 posted on 02/12/2007 2:46:08 PM PST by wolfcreek (Please Lord, May I be, one who sees what's in front of me.)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
That is a lie, no existing roads were converted to tolls.

So, how come I can no longer drive on Mo-Pac north of Scofield Ridge without paying the piper? I had to invent a new route to my doctor's office because the direct route I've taken for 10 years now wants my money.

150 posted on 02/12/2007 2:46:09 PM PST by Tall_Texan (NO McCain, Rudy, Romney, Hillary, Kerry, Obama or Gore in 2008!)
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To: Tall_Texan
I can't safely walk from the parking garage to my office (or other offices) when it is raining outside. The sidewalks can be too slick in some areas.

And up north the sidewalks ice over.

A personal commuter device (like a car) means climate control and keeps you from having to associate with x number of strangers with communicable diseases.

151 posted on 02/12/2007 2:48:42 PM PST by weegee (No third term. Hillary Clinton's 2008 election run presents a Constitutional Crisis.)
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To: Lion Den Dan
There are other ways. My recommendation to the city of San Jose California was to permit businesses to build condominiums above their offices. Low cost housing and day care coupled with private schools and entertainment would be a good enticement for workers. If you quit your job, you get to move out. Commute would be an elevator ride. The businesses were very interested but the city was only interested in the loss of real estate value in their suburbs with corresponding loss in revenue. The state of California wanted to tax the free condo as income and did not want to license private schools on site.

Every solution comes with its own set of problems.

152 posted on 02/12/2007 2:48:48 PM PST by Ben Mugged (Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

"...The people have made their choice - they overwhelmingly prefer cars."

In most American cities they don't HAVE a choice.

Look, no one is trying to take anyone's car away from them, like some have implied. What some of us are saying is most of us would not need them to commute to work, if we had a viable alternative. Our big cities are rapidly becoming unlivable because of automobile induced sprawl, and spending hours every day sitting in a metal box sure isn't good for anyone's physical or mental health either.


153 posted on 02/12/2007 2:49:05 PM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( ISLAMA DELENDA EST!)
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To: lentulusgracchus
May be I'm wrong about this, but I've been under the impression that the toll road controversy in Texas involves roads that haven't even been built yet. If that's the case, then what's the big deal? Motorists can either pay for the new roads through their fuel taxes, or pay for the roads through the tolls. In either case, they're getting roads tomorrow that aren't there today.

It's also worth noting that tolling a highway on a major trade corridor makes a lot of sense for simple economic/operational reasons -- because it forces users who have both a start and end point outside the region to pay for their use of the system.

154 posted on 02/12/2007 2:51:02 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: Alberta's Child
It's also worth noting that tolling a highway on a major trade corridor makes a lot of sense for simple economic/operational reasons -- because it forces users who have both a start and end point outside the region to pay for their use of the system.

Yes, thank you! This is a point that is, for some reason, lost on most people. The Indiana Toll Road, for instance, essentially serves to move truck traffic from New York to Chicago, and despite that these people don't pay Indiana taxes, the road exists almost exclusively for their use. Toll away.

155 posted on 02/12/2007 2:54:15 PM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: weegee

Thank you for the information. I'll remember to never travel to Houston.


156 posted on 02/12/2007 2:55:01 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife
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To: Publius Valerius
Must be why my Indiana relatives are so strongly for the deal. (Not!)
157 posted on 02/12/2007 2:56:47 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: Ben Mugged
More drivers are being added to the highways faster than we can pave new ones.

Either learn to live with it or move out of the huge population centers (i.e. big city). It's the tendenacy to swarm to the cities that's the problem.

158 posted on 02/12/2007 3:08:47 PM PST by delacoert
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To: Madeleine Ward

Work 10 hour days, four days a week, have 3 day weekends or a break during the week

This would not work for all jobs, but for many it would be fine.


159 posted on 02/12/2007 3:09:42 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: Alberta's Child
If that's the case, then what's the big deal?


FReepmail ToleranceSucksRocks and get on his ping list. We'll be glad to educate you on how Texans feel about being MESSED with.
160 posted on 02/12/2007 3:10:44 PM PST by wolfcreek (Please Lord, May I be, one who sees what's in front of me.)
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