Why Are There So Many Single Americans?

New York Times ^ | 21 January 2007 | Kate Zernike

[shrinkermd]

THE news that 51 percent of all women live without a spouse might be enough to make you invest in cat futures.

But consider, too, the flip side: about half of all men find themselves in the same situation. As the number of people marrying has dropped off in the last 45 years, the marriage rate has declined equally for men and for women.

The stereotype has been cemented in the popular culture: the hard-charging career girl who gets her comeuppance, either violently or dying a slow death by late-night memo and Chinese takeout...

But when it comes to marriage, the two Americas aren’t divided by gender. And it’s not the career girls on the losing end. It’s their less educated manicurists or housekeepers, women who might arguably be less able to live on their own.

The emerging gulf is instead one of class — what demographers, sociologists and those who study the often depressing statistics about the wedded state call a “marriage gap” between the well-off and the less so.

Statistics show that college educated women are more likely to marry than non-college educated women — although they marry, on average, two years later.

Women with more education also are becoming less likely to divorce, or inclined to divorce, than those with less education. They are even less likely to be widowed all in all, less likely to end up alone.

[seemoAR]

Wives don't cheat?. At least a man can always buy the milk if he has the money. Judging by what I have read, marriage has ended the sex lives of a lot of men. Some wives don't want their husbands to bother them. That man will either do without or go elsewhere.

[redgolum]

There are Catholic online singles groups. Know a few people that have met their spouse there (Ave Maria is the name I think).

But what you say about churches (and this covers most churches, not just Catholic) not having much for singles is true. In many ways, young singles are not really wanted or focused on much. For a priest or pastor, having a singles group (like what used to be common) is a pain with little return. Not to mention the chance for scandal if the budding romance goes bad or the couple starts shacking up.

For the rest of the church, young singles are ignored. They don't donate much, and many older people just don't like them. Because of that, you often see few young single people at church on Sunday until they become older married people with kids.

I do remember though, one Sunday near Valentine's Day, a pastor at my old parish gave a great sermon on how to be a chaste Christian single person these days, and how lonely it is. I also remember it made some of the congregation a bit upset.

[RosieCotton]

There's Ave Maria...also catholicmatch.com. I've had profiles on both at various times, but without a lot of luck. Maybe the right person just hasn't signed on yet, I dunno!

I do remember though, one Sunday near Valentine's Day, a pastor at my old parish gave a great sermon on how to be a chaste Christian single person these days, and how lonely it is. I also remember it made some of the congregation a bit upset.

That's great! We tend to be a segment of the church population that gets overlooked. I understand why...but it can be hard at times.

[azkathy]

People are single nowadays because they were raised in a culture of narcissism. Marraige requires responsibility and sacrifice.
Your statement is very true. I speak from personal experience. I was committed to a 25 year marriage only to learn that my husbum was not. (PUN intended.)
He couldn't be bothered with things like loyalty and fidelity. He had an affair while I was dealing with our only son's life threatening injuries and nine surgeries.

He is not the first man to hide from a crisis by having an affair and he certainly will not be the last. In this day and age any woman who choses to stay married to a cheater must have a death wish. Cheating can be life threatening with the diseases that are out there and divorce is the only viable alternative under these circumstances.

[AdamSelene235]

Actually, it's more that while women pay an emotional price for a marriage gone wrong, for men it's a financial meltdown.

Actually, the suicide rate for divorced men is 10X that of divorced women whearas it is normally only a 2X gender difference.

[CORedneck]

No thanks....... I have the money to go to these types of resorts but you know what, I don't care for them. They are so "superficial". I just got back from taking vacation to New Zealand for three weeks. I did the backpacking thing. Stayed in Hostels. They are simple. I met quite a few people while there and hope to stay in touch over time. Sometime, I want to go back.

One of the things I realized when I was there was when people found out I was from the US, they asked how I pulled off taking three weeks off. I mentioned I decided to take the time. Comments were made on how us Americans kill ourselves working so much where we don't take time off and enjoy life. Here in America, the attitude is "live to work".

On the McMansion, screw that. We live in an 1800 ft^2 house. It is paid for. I bought my first new car ('06 Subaru WRX Turbo) last Summer - 7 years since my previous new vehicle. It will be paid off in June 2008. I also own a '91 P/U truck (bought used) and a 99 Jeep (bought new).

On the house, if we moved, I was thinking of doing a Modern Contemporary type which includes a lot of natural light. No cookie cutter type.

In my previous job where I worked for an @$$hole boss, the people who did well were the ones who worked the whole day Friday with some weekend work, did not take vacation or took a few days off here and there instead of a week or two. In fact, judgment was passed by management where if you didn't play the game of "keeping up with the Jones'", it hurt your career such as driving the latest, greatest car or SUV, participated in "approved activities" outside of work. Going 4x4'ing or riding motorcycles did not qualify. Also not being in heavy debt such as credit card and having your house paid for even though it was simple counted against you. One couple paid off their house in 5 years and owned only one car. That was looked down on by management since "The Man" could not "own them". It hurt my career since I had my house paid for and not other debt to speak of at the time. My @$$hole manager had the audacity to try to poke into my financial affairs and made comments such that I seem to have money and wealth and asked me how I got it. He then mentioned that being well off at a young age was not good for Society and I should think of Society in my financial decisions such as giving money to the "disadvantaged". I told him it was none of his business. He did not take that too kindly.

The women I meet are generally spoiled beyond control, and demand - yes demand - engagement rings that will put you in debt for decades. Then they demand the $50K wedding that takes a year to plan, driving everyone nuts, followed up by the $10-20K honeymoon to some idiotic "couple" resort, or the typical cliche Hawaii. Then, when you return, you are expected to buy the newest, biggest house in town, furnish it from the best of suppliers, and buy the newest, fanciest cars imaginable. All so your darling wife can lord it over everyone else.

[TalonDJ]

How can a man want to go into a marriage, from which he will NEVER emotionally or financially recover if she decides to leave him?

Anyone getting into marriage by weighing how easy it will be to get out of has no business getting married in the first place.

[redgolum]

If I had a boss like you did... Well lets just say I would not be polite when I found he was looking into my personal finances.

My brother in law was trying to do the stuff you talked about. He berated me for my career path (chemical engineering with a process focus), and that I could make so much more money if I could would do x,y,z.

I told him "True, but I can hunt, fish, and read for almost free and live close enough to my friends and family that I actually get to know them". He gave me a blank look and walked away.

[CORedneck]

I been divorced before. All it takes is a stroke of a pen from a judge to force you to give things you worked hard for even prior to the marriage. I also seen other men get raked over the coals. One person, his wife cheated, she wanted a divorce. They were married fro less than a year. The judge awarded her all property from the marriage plus property he worked hard for prior to the marriage. To add insult to injury, he had to pay her alimony and her attorney fees. You know what his occupation was ? He was a college student. She worked for a big accounting firm. Makes you wonder.....

[azkathy]

Anyone getting into marriage by weighing how easy it will be to get out of has no business getting married in the first place.

Good point and that is part of the cause for increased divorce rates.
The "I want it now" impatience of people. My ex wanted to take care of his needs and he had the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" problem. He had no business getting married in the first place.

[gogeo]

I'm tired of trying to adjust to the single mom's kids, where it's unfare of me to bring in a new set of rules OR expect me to sit in the corner and shut up...

Well...my advice would be, "Don't." That solves the problem, doesn't it?

[Interesting Times]

Few here have commented on the main point of the article: the economic disparity between the married and the unwed. The emerging gulf is instead one of class — what demographers, sociologists and those who study the often depressing statistics about the wedded state call a “marriage gap” between the well-off and the less so.

Naturally, the NYT writer considers it depressing and unfair, and frames it as negatively as possible, but even she has to admit the statistical fact that getting married and staying married correlates to financial success.

Look for the followup article, calling for reparations...

[TalonDJ]

Most of that is garbage but I will just debunk one part.

That old nonsense statistic that 'half of marriages end in divorce'.

That never takes into account remarriage rates. Lets say for example that 65% of people that divorce get married again. And lets say that about 30% of divorcees get married third time and that about 5% get married a total of 4 times. And the all end up divorced in the end. Now, if we assume that half of marriages do end in divorce we get a total rate that says 75% of all first marriages do NOT end in divorce.


No those are not real precentages. I am just using them to show why the 'of all marriages' is a worthless statistic.

[TalonDJ]

Most of that is garbage but I will just debunk one part.

That old nonsense statistic that 'half of marriages end in divorce'.

That never takes into account remarriage rates. Lets say for example that 65% of people that divorce get married again. And lets say that about 30% of divorcees get married third time and that about 5% get married a total of 4 times. And the all end up divorced in the end. Now, if we assume that half of marriages do end in divorce we get a total rate that says 75% of all first marriages do NOT end in divorce.


No those are not real percentages. I am just using them to show why the 'of all marriages' is a worthless statistic.

[SMARTY]

Whether or not either of them goes into it with that in mind, the guy stands to lose the most in the event that it fails. That is a lead pipe cinch. And he knows it. That is what I meant.

[Steel Wolf]

That old nonsense statistic that 'half of marriages end in divorce'.

That never takes into account remarriage rates. Lets say for example that 65% of people that divorce get married again. And lets say that about 30% of divorcees get married third time and that about 5% get married a total of 4 times. And the all end up divorced in the end. Now, if we assume that half of marriages do end in divorce we get a total rate that says 75% of all first marriages do NOT end in divorce.

Are you suggesting that 75% of first marriages do not end in divorce? I'm just saying that I can count the number of people I know who are still on their first marriage on one hand, whereas I'd need to take off my shoes and socks to count those who have been divorced. Results vary by generation, which may give mean and median divorce rates for America by generation that aren't at all similar.

At any rate, you're right in that the statisic is nonsense. There are no real hard numbers, since not all states report the number of divorces. It's all speculation, and irrelevant to any particular couple. They succeed or fail on their own merits, not on what society at large is up to.

[TalonDJ]

Get out of CA and you might have a shot.

And look on FR. I found my wife here and she is nothing like anything you describe.

watch my friends drop hundreds on diamonds and flowers and candy and dinnder for V-day, and what do they get?

Anyone that gives with the expectation of getting something in return for it is way off track. Doubly true for people that expect expensive gifts. Both are way off track.
If I offered my wife either a big diamond something-or-other, a new laptop, or a new handgun, she would be really torn... between the laptop and the handgun.

If you're good, you can watch the occasional football game, or play golf. Hobbies, dreams, desires, goals? Forget them, unless SHE approves

Anyone that marries someone who hates all their hobbies deserves what they get. Anyone that keeps their love ones from the things they love doing also deserves the misery they are buying.

[JenB]

Anyone getting into marriage by weighing how easy it will be to get out of has no business getting married in the first place.

But don't you know women only marry so they can take away the guy's house, car, kids, toys, and money?

Oh, yeah, good thing you weren't weighing how easy it would be to get out of our marriage since the only way out is "feet first". ;-p

[gogeo]

I guess I just keep waitin' on my miracle and trying to do my best, but these threads sure can get a decent gal down...

You can just be who you are. I suspect that I'm one who's viewed as a woman basher, but I don't think I am.

I believe that the legal system and societal attitudes are really stacked against men. Feminists have sought to change the balance of power in relationships between men and women, if you will, and they have been spectacularly successful. They've also lied to women. I believe they seek a fundamental reordering of society, and they're achieving it.

The deadbeat dad...the abusive male...they're cliches, but powerful ones. I've seen a statistic that 70% of divorce is initiated by wives, and I believe it. During my own divorce I had three other friends who were also getting divorced. Each of them were accused of not only being abusive, but of molesting their children. I wasn't, but my ex-wife made it clear that she would "do what she had to do." (her words, not mine.)

Those accusations get husbands and fathers 1) thrown out of the house 2) removed from any presence with their children 3) investigated.

Does physical and child abuse happen? Sure. The accusations fundamentally change the playing field, the relationship between parents, and between non-custodial parents and their children. No due process is necessary; the statement about concern will get the restraining order issued, and a mere accusation of child abuse will get a father removed from their children's presence. Many parent-child relationships, unfortunately, never survive that.

Does this make women evil? Of course not; they're human. We as a society tend to forgive their emotional acting out, especially mothers. It doesn't make them bad, it makes them human; give them a club to use, and you've got a good chance they will use it. It's just human nature. I don't blame women, I blame laws and courts and politicians. Men effectively have one option...whether to subject themselves to it, or not. That's the world you, an undoubtedly good hearted person, seek a mate in.

It won't change unless you speak up. Men have been marginalized in the debate.

[investigateworld]

"Most smart men are waiting until the go deaf to marry."

Best post on the thread!