Men being men is a bad deal Guys should evolve beyond masculinity(3 bag barfer)

San Francisco Cronicle ^ | Sunday, October 8, 2006 | Robert Jensen

[US Navy guy]

It's hard to be a man; hard to live up to the demands that come with the dominant conception of masculinity, of the tough guy.

[CindyDawg]

LOL

[Forgiven_Sinner]

One of many weaknesses in this article is that the author doesn't define his premises. He starts with "masculinity" as if the definition he is using is known and agreed upon as scientific fact.

I can think of at least three types of "masculinity" that I use:

1) cultural masculinity - cultural norms and expectations. This varies from culture to culture, but there are similarities. This is probably what the author refers to in his article.

2) natural or biological masculinity. This is how males behave without regard to cultural influences. Any parent of boys and girls will understand boys don't behave like girls. They are more aggressive and more willing to push the boundaries of everything.

3) Ideal masculinity - this is what masculinity should be, as a goal. This is again without regard to culture, but is in concert with our biological nature. This is embodied in Jesus Christ. It is the total sacrifice of the self for the sake of the greater good. This is how our aggression and warrior nature is to be used--to conquer obstacles and problems. This is why the firemen who sacrificed themselves to save others in the World Trade Center were universally recognized as "masculine".

The article needs to start from definition 2 or 3, not definition 1.

[MadIvan]

Very telling bit at the bottom of the article:

Robert Jensen is a professor of journalism at the University of Texas. His most recent book was "Writing Dissent: Taking Radical Ideas From the Margins to the Mainstream (2001)."

Left wing moonbat, in other words. They have no business trying to define masculinity - they haven't a clue what reality is, let alone anything else.

Regards, Ivan

[rlmorel]

"...It's hard to be a man; hard to live up to the demands that come with the dominant conception of masculinity,..."

Yeah. Where the heck did the guy come up with that? One might say life is hard sometimes, as it is, but I cannot imagine being a "man" for a man is much more difficult than being a "woman" is for a woman. You are what you are. How is that difficult? But I will concede...for SOME men (like this writer) it may be hard to be a man, and for some women it may be hard to be a woman. If you hate yourself and your sexuality, then then it may indeed be tough.

[Candor7]

PU$$Y whipped in California? Come to Texas.

Submissive men laud testosterone Shortage!

This is the end of the world! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Sounds familiar! Must be an eco-sexual freek!

Split wood, ride the range herding long horns, hunt for elk and deer, laugh, drink wine and whiskey, take an aspirin and call me in the morning!

Then maybe I'll hook you up with a real conservative woman, if you are lucky!

Girlymen! Yech!

You can't Girlyman! Don't even think about it!

[goldstategop]

Robert Jensen? The mods censored an Alternet column I posted here a month or so ago. They should lift the ban on postings from there for much more so than the dying Drive By Media, that's becoming the main stronghold of Lefty thought on the Internet. And yes, Jensen is a flaming metrosexual lib.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[tcostell]

Clearly the author is an imbecile. If he wants to see an example of the tenderness and gentle nature of masculinity, look at any conservative American man with his 6 year old daughter.

If he wants to see the rest of the nature of masculinity, try to harm that 6 year old daughter.

the author needs to grow up... we can't be college students for ever...some of us have more to lose than that.

[No Blue States]

Ive heard of this kotex before and am ashamed he is in Texas, especially one of our universities.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Based on the article, do you think the author folds his panties, or just throws them in the drawer?"

Drawer?? Drawer?? Real males don't keep their underwear in drawers. One hamper for dirty, one hamper for clean. When the "dirty" one gets full, wash clothes.

[GladesGuru]

How did such an academic joke get on faculty in Texas?

[Lil'freeper]

Brings a tear to my eye...

Now don't get all weepy on us.

[JRios1968]

That dominant conception of masculinity in U.S. culture is easily summarized: Men are assumed to be naturally competitive and aggressive, and being a real man is therefore marked by the struggle for control, conquest and domination. A man looks at the world, sees what he wants and takes it. Men who don't measure up are wimps, sissies, girls. The worst insult one man can hurl at another -- whether it's boys on the playground or CEOs in the boardroom -- is the accusation that a man is like a woman.

Written by someone who acts as a woman for other males (not men...) Since it's on the San Fransicko Chronicle, 'nuff said.

[GBA]

"We identify masculine tendencies toward competition, domination and violence because we see patterns of differential behavior; men are more prone to such behavior in our culture."

The author sounds like someone who got beat up a lot in grade school. He really should get out of his sewing circle more often. Competition, dominance and violence are human characteristics and are not gender specific.

[Uncle Billy]

It would better if pseudo intellectual "jouranlism professors" would stop acting retarded.

[Salamander]

"Manly Men/Conan The Barbarian/Camo Is Sexy" ping....;)

[oh, you both already know what I'm thinking, anyway]

[Valin]

The Mans Prayer
I'm a man,
But I can change,
If I have to,
I guess.

[SteveMcKing]

"Mr. Garrison" was my techer.

 

The truth is -- most women don't act that "womanly".

Gays try to act out their own false and twisted view of women. And they fail miserably at it.

[Savage Beast]

This guy Jensen's got bad problems.

"It's hard to be a man"

No. It's the easiest thing in the world. One just relaxes. Allows himself to be himself, let his own truth come forth, his own masculinity to define itself.

I love being a man. Most of us do. What could be easier or more fun? If you're a man, that is.

"It's...hard to live up to the demands that come with the dominant conception of masculinity, of the tough guy."

What a simpleton statement!

Why bother, Robert?

If you're tough, you're tough. If you're something else, you're that. If you're soft, you're soft.

Do you mean to tell me you've been trying to be a tough guy all this time??? You've been trying to be something that you're not??? No wonder you're so srewed up!

"So, guys, I have an idea -- maybe it's time we stop trying. Maybe this masculinity thing is a bad deal, not just for women, but for us."

Robert. Robert. It's your misconceptions about "masculinity" that are the "bad deal". And not for women--or men either--but for you--and probably those around you.

You need therapy.

The rest of us are doing just fine--men and women.

Get help.

"We need to get rid of the whole idea of masculinity."

Uh...Robert. Get help.

"It's time to abandon the claim that there are certain psychological or social traits that inherently come with being biologically male."

There are definitely psychological and biological traits that inherently come with being biologically male, Robert, and they inevitably lead to distinctive social traits. The same is true of being female. And it's a good thing.

For example, men tend to fall in love with women, women with men. It works. It is also an important part of reproduction.

Men tend not to worry about having menstrual periods. It is something that women must be concerned with.

Men and women love their children, but in ways that are probably slightly different, and they tend to assume different responsibilities in caring for their children, for the benefit of the children and the general benefit of the family.

And--the biological demand for ejaculation in men tends to give them a more immediate and goal-oriented demand for sexual gratification.

The biological fact that the fetus develops within the female body--and not the male--causes women to have certain biological, psychological, and social concerns that men do not have.

"If we can get past that, we have a chance to create a better world for men and women."

Most of us got past that somewhere around adolescence. And if not, during the first years of marriage and child bearing.

"That dominant conception of masculinity in U.S. culture is easily summarized: Men are assumed to be naturally competitive and aggressive, and being a real man is therefore marked by the struggle for control, conquest and domination. A man looks at the world, sees what he wants and takes it. Men who don't measure up are wimps, sissies, girls."

Robert. Get help.

"Although the culture acknowledges that men can in some situations have traits traditionally associated with women (caring, compassion, tenderness), in the end it is men's strength-expressed-as-toughness that defines us and must trump any female-like softness. Those aspects of masculinity must prevail for a man to be a "real man."

You're nuts!

I have never known anyone more caring, compassionate, or tender--or more masculine--than my son. If anyone is a "real man", he is.

Men in general are like this. So are women.

If you don't know this, you are living in a terrible delusion.

You are in for a very pleasant surprise if you can manage to escape from the unhappy delusional paradigm in which you are obviously living.

You are speaking of your own personal concept of "the culture". It is sick. It is false. You are delusional and horribly misguided.

Get help.

[metesky]

That view of masculinity is dangerous for women. It leads men to seek to control "their" women and define their own pleasure in that control, which leads to epidemic levels of rape and battery. But this view of masculinity is toxic for men as well.

What a load of happy horsechit.

This Jensen guy needs a good slap!
/s

[Salamander]

"It's hard to be a man; hard to live up to the demands that come with the dominant conception of masculinity, of the tough guy."

Uh, no...not for men it isn't....:)