Posted on 08/25/2006 12:39:24 AM PDT by Gamecock
"Attempts to tell"? It's in black and white in any of a number of catechisms and theology texts.
Since all "unbaptized" RC babies are supposed to end up in Limbo
Limbo is theological speculation, not dogma. And there's no such thing as an "unbaptized RC baby," because there's no such thing as an "unbaptized RC".
A valid sacrament requires valid matter, valid form, valid recipient, valid minister, and a valid intent.
In the case of baptism, valid matter is water, valid form is the invocation of the Trinity, a valid recipient is any unbaptized person, a valid minister is anyone at all, and "valid intent" means the intent to confer Christian Trinitarian baptism.
So, you tell me: is Protestant baptism valid?
Isn't Limbo a dance under a stick?
It's that too! (It's a floor polish, it's a salad dressing ...)
I'd welcome it, but I can do better. I can name that tune in one note.
All I'd have to do is point out the mass confusion (pun intended, and copyrighted to boot) and warm welcome that a Catholic-sponsored Hindu "mass" received. There's your "Catholic unity" in action for you.
The latter group is secure in the God-given understanding that now, by the predestining will of God alone, we stand acquitted of our sins because Christ stood in our place to suffer the punishment due us. Once that realization is made, life becomes clear and purposeful and rich and positive.
And that realization is a gift from God given by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ -- a gift given to those whom God has named from before the foundation of the world, according to His good pleasure by His mercy alone and not according to anything inherently "righteous" in the recipient because all men are fallen and grace cannot be earned. (That sentence is way too long.)
Some faiths come closer to this Scriptural understanding than others. Certainly, for me, Reformed faiths come the closest. Presbyterianism most close.
But ultimately, I believe all Trinitarian Christians are likely to be among God's elect because that is the bottom-line criteria Christ established -- believe in me and be saved.
But the evidence is overwhelming that everything, most especially our belief in Christ, is from God alone. It's His creation. He is the focal point to all existence. Nothing happens unless it is by the will of God.
Hard to believe, especially being creatures of modern life and higher criticism and Oprah's book club. But them's the facts and I'm sticking to them as best I can.
IMO the RC church is correct in worshiping the Trinitarian God of all creation, and is off-base in several other key areas, skirting idolatry and putting its faith in men and magisteriums at the expense of God's self-revelation in Scripture.
Trinitarian faith is the great divide, however. I think our differences are important and error can lead to even more egregious error. God demands sound doctrine.
And finally, having seen life from both sides, I think I'm happier than those who believe God is a pliable buddy or a rigid taskmaster or a counter of beads rather than the "I am" of every atom in the universe. I've seen the fruits of a faith grounded in Scripture and in His promise to lose none whom the Father has given Him. It's hard to argue with results.
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."
I trust what He said was true. Christ has risen. He has overcome the world. The rest is gravy.
Protestant baptism does not confer anything, least of all salvation. It is a sign and seal of God's promise. It is one among many gifts God has given to illustrate His love for His flock.
I believe you're changing the subject. Do you want to talk about what Catholics believe about the validity of Protestant baptism, or don't you?
There are Protestants who flatly disagree with your theology of baptism, BTW, and cite the Bible to back up their beliefs. But if you want to waste your time with a baptism that doesn't confer anything, go for it!
Enough with the puns already!
"a valid minister is anyone at all,"
So, if Dr. E baptized someone it would be accepted as valid in the RC. Now she can teach men and baptize. I think I will order a collar for her.
It's Friday and they didn't gain on us, I think!
Why bother. Beating one's head against the wall only results in a headache.
"I trust what He said was true. Christ has risen. He has overcome the world. The rest is gravy."
___________________________________
AMEN!
Great post.
There are two different articles I posted.
Well I never!
Richard Bennett......remember that name...........because after tomorrow you'll never hear it again!
While the distinctions between denominations are well worth debating in a civil tone; whole screeds meant to generalize in their attack written by people with an ax to grind and posted without comment and sincere commentary are probably not presented in the tradition of true fellowship IMHO.
Wow. Yes, isn't that beautiful?
Of course, we all should heed the writer since, as an interpreter, he is an honest broker and transparent to the prompting of the Spirit, without agenda, prejudice, and bias. I get all this from the profound treatment to which he subjected "the problem of the interpreter" in this rambling essay.
Anyway, I stand "corrected" by this apostate priest. Sorry all for having bothered you before.
Not.
-Theo
Agreed. Here comes the blowback, as expected.
-Theo
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