Are These the End Times? (Newsweek Interviews Tim LaHaye)

Newsweek ^ | August 2, 2006 | Brian Braker

[rightwingintelligentsia]

When Tim LaHaye talks, the faithful listen—by the millions. The conservative Protestant minister is the coauthor of the wildly popular apocalyptic “Left Behind” novels. The controversial books, which have sold more than 60 million copies, depict the biblical end of the world: the Christian eschatology of the upheaval that precedes the second coming of Jesus Christ, known also as “end times.” LaHaye recently spoke with NEWSWEEK’s Brian Braiker about why he believes the events currently unfolding in the Middle East reflect biblical prophesy.

[jeffc]

Of course, even if all that is accurate, it does nothing to delay Christ's imminent return.

You are absolutely correct. I relish in the inanity of those who do not understand religion and try to paint President Bush as someone "pushing" the end of the world. They do not understand what REAL Christians know: there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that we can do to help nor hinder, the coming of the day of judgment.

Also, as an aside, people here on this thread talk about things getting worse as a "sign": The Beast will usher in a time of worldwide prosperity before things start coming apart.

[Hootowl]

Fire destroys; it also purifies. Besides, God said, "I make all things new," not "I make all new things." I believe you can logically conclude from Scripture that God's intent is to purify and sanctify His creation, not utterly destroy it.

[Iscool]

I think that you are a little confused here

No...I'm not confused at all...You made reference to the 'original Greek'...I just wanted to point out that there is no original Greek...

And that's because, you see so many people who are 'Greek' experts and they use the phrase, 'the original Greeks says'...They are a bunch of fakers...There is no original Greek...

[wideawake]

There is no original Greek...

You are playing word games.

There is no original Greek autograph.

There is an original Greek text.

Were there no original Greek text there would be no New Testament, since 90% of the New Testament was composed in Greek at a minimum.

And the Textus Receptus is the text considered by the Reformers to embody the original Greek text with the greatest accuracy.

I'll point out that the verse we were discussing is preserved word-for-word the same in the various Greek text types that have come down to us.

So as far as this specific verse is concerned there is no other Greek text but the text I translated for you.

A further note: in 1Cor 4:1, earlier in the same book we are discussing, Paul refers to himself and his fellow ministers as oikonomous of the mysteries of God. If oikonomian means "dispensation" in the modern sense it has acquired since 1611, then oikonomous means "dispensers."

Is Paul claiming that he has the power or the authority of God himself? Hardly. The KJV translates the word oikonomous as "stewards."

That is, persons who are tasked with the job of stewardship of the mysteries of God and disseminating those mysteries as He directs.

Which corresponds precisely to the notion that even if he were to preach unwillingly, he does it because it is the task he is entrusted with, the oikonomian pepisteumai.

The "dispensation" in Jacobean English and the "responsibility" or "task" in modern English in the verse we are discussing does not refer to separate paths and modalities of salvation affecting different groups at different times - it refers to the job God gave Paul: to preach "the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

[JockoManning]

Thx for the ping.

Quote:

"We have more reason to believe that Christ could come in our lifetime than any generation before us."

[Quix]

Amen! thanks.

[Quix]

Have read a fair amount of this thread so far. As usual, the naysayers seem to . . . hold forth . . . the loudest and most persistently.

And, alas, I'm not all that impressed with the Scriptural presentations--certainly on their side but almost on both sides.

In any case, following should be some gleanings from various sites on the web which offer some presentations toward proving or at least showing evidence for this era, this generation being the one to experience THE END TIMES spoken of in Scripture.

NOTE: I DO !NOT! NECESSARILY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING FROM ANY PARTICULAR SITE. But I share the following because I think they have some merit in the current discussion. I at least think they are equal or better than what's been presented so far.

The first doc from the first site follows:

Roy Reinhold's doc on a 7 year period for The Great Tribulation: http://ad2004.com/prophecytruths/Articles/Prophecy/7yrsproof.html

Most of his emphases are his. Will note mine as [QA=Quix Added]. Actually, I didn't even put his emphases in. If you want to see his emphases, please go to the link.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Biblical Proof for an End-Times 7 Year Period
by Roy A. Reinhold

There are many people who are confused about the proof for a literal end-times 7 year period. Martin Luther laid down the correct hermeneutics methodology for viewing scriptures hundreds of years ago, and all seminaries teach the process. We first view any scripture at face value, with a literal exegesis (explanation). This method applies to all scripture, including prophecies. In doing this, we recognize there are often figurative symbols embedded within a literal storyline of prophecy. The error common among many, is to view all prophecy as figurative or symbolic, which robs the reader of any sensible meaning. It also leads to heresies and gnostic interpretations.

Proposal: The Bible teaches a literal 7 year end-times period that is apparent to any person who takes the time to connect the dots.

First, let me outline the 7 year period in a synopsis for you, and then you can clearly see it as each piece of evidence is added.

The seven year end-times period begins with the peace treaty of prophecy (called the covenant with death). The peace treaty will be between Israel and the surrounding nations, brokered by international powers. Israel will give away land in exchange for an internationally guaranteed peace. Half of Jerusalem will be given away. In exchange, Israel will be given half of the Temple Mount on which to build a Temple, unobstructed by Moslems. The evidence is that a wall will be built just north of the Dome of the Rock, separating the Temple Mount into a Jewish section and a Moslem section.

In the middle of the end-times 7 year period, a person called the beast (antichrist) will forcibly stop the literal sacrifices and grain offerings taking place at the Jewish Temple. He will falsely declare himself to be God on earth and demand worship. This is the abomination of desolation.

At the end of the 7-year period, Yeshua (Jesus) will return to reign on the earth with the armies of heaven. He will subdue all armies and governments. He will touch down on the Mount of Olives, cross the Kidron Valley, and enter the Temple Mount through the now-closed Eastern Gate. He will enter the Jewish Temple and take His seat. All eyes will see Him, it will not be some sort of invisible appearance.

That's the outline of the end-times 7 year period in a nutshell. Below is a graphic showing the sequence of events.

Of course one points to Daniel 9:27 as a starting point for reference, but that is only one little verse.

Daniel 9:27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.

The week is a week of years. At the beginning, one person brokers a peace treaty, and that person later stops the sacrifices and grain offerings. Then comes another person who makes an abomination of desolation at the Temple. Finally, a complete destruction is decreed to be poured out on the second person who performed the abomination of desolation. Straightforward, simple, and easy to understand; but if Daniel 9:27 were all we had, then it wouldn't constitute enough evidence to convince most people. Let's go on and look at corroborating evidence.

In Daniel 12:11, it states specifically that from the abomination of desolation, there will be 1290 days. The 1290 days is when Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah will come to reign on the earth.

Daniel 12:9-12 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end-time. Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1335 days."

Clearly, the above verse corroborates a piece of the outline from Daniel 9:27. We are told that the sacrifices will be stopped and that an abomination of desolation will be performed. However, we are also told an important new piece of information, namely, that there would be 1290 days from the abomination of desolation until a certain event. In the context of the chapter, Daniel 12, the 1290 days is the arrival of the Messiah to rescue Israel. The 1290 days from the abomination of desolation is what Christians call the Second Coming, and the Jewish people call it the First Coming.

The 1335 days points to the prophetic fulfillment of Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement), where Ezekiel 34 is fulfilled with the judgment of the Jewish people by the Messiah. Their sins will be forgiven and they will be saved, as written also in Romans 11:25-29. The 45 days between the 1290 and 1335 days is when the armies and governments attack the Messiah and are defeated, and all remaining people on earth are summoned for judgment. Before we leave Daniel 12, I'd like you to note Daniel 12:7, that the beast (antichrist) will be allowed to shatter the Jewish people for a time, times, and half a time (1 + 2 + 0.5 = 3.5 years). We will prove further down that a time, times, and half a time is a literal 3.5 year period.

In the Olivet Discourse, Yeshua (Jesus) sat down with Peter, James, John, and Andrew, and explained the end-times period. In it, He spoke of the abomination of desolation occurring, and then the last half of the 7 year period would begin with the Great Tribulation period.

Matthew 24:15-16 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains........

Mark 13:14 But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Luke 21:20-21 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, .......

While the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70 AD, that was not the fulfillment of these verses (as the preterists and historicists claim). The sequence of the prophetic events from Daniel 9:12 and Daniel 12 is that a peace treaty would have to be struck 3.5 years before the abomination of desolation.

Then the sacrifices are stopped, and the abomination of desolation performed in the Temple takes place where a person declares himself falsely to be God in the holy place of the Temple. Only after those events do the armies surround Jerusalem.

Then exactly 1290 days later the Messiah comes visibly to reign on the earth. 45 days after the Second Coming, all the people of the earth are judged. During the 45 days, all governments and armies on earth are defeated and subdued.

In 70 AD, armies did surround Jerusalem, but it was before the sacrifices were stopped. There was no abomination of desolation where a person declared himself falsely to be God and demanded worship. There was no mark of the beast system (666), where if a person refused the mark, they couldn't buy or sell. Finally, the Second Coming visibly did not take place 1290 days after the destruction in 70 AD.

The Roman armies continued their dominance for hundreds of years. The people of the earth were not judged visibly standing before the Messiah. And Isaiah 65 was not fulfilled where people's lifespans increased so much, that a youth would die at the age of one hundred years. Only a foolish person would believe or teach that 70 AD fulfilled all the prophecies.

Let's go on with our proofs of the 7 year period. In Rev 12:6, Israel (the woman, here is one of those figurative symbols within a literal timeline) flees into the wilderness for 1260 days, persecuted by the world system under the antichrist, a minion of satan.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she might be nourished for 1260 days.

Revelation 12:14 And the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, in order that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time from the presence of the serpent.

The first thing to notice is that verses 6 & 14 tell the same thing, but the timeframe is defined differently. 1260 days = time , times, and half a time = 3.5 (years). This is the same exact thing mentioned in Daniel 12:7, except that Daniel 7 calls them the holy people, Israel.

The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. Revelation 12:4-5 amplifies that point, since it states that the woman gives birth to the Messiah, the one who will rule all nations. The woman is not Mary, since in Daniel 12 and elsewhere, the prophecies speak of the Jewish people when it talks about the same exact prophecies. Christians all know that Yeshua (Jesus) was born and lived as a Jew.

In Revelation 13:5, we are given an additional corroborating piece of the puzzle.

Revelation 13:5-7 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for 42 months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue was given to him.

Revelation 13 tells us the same thing as Revelation 12 and Daniel 12, that the beast (antichrist) has an allotted period of power of 42 months, and he will persecute the Jewish people for that timeframe. He will also persecute the Christians as is shown in Revelation 12:17.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

While the evidence is that satan through the antichrist will persecute Christians too for a season, the main point is that the persecution of the Jewish people is for 42 months. Therefore:

1260 days = time, times, and half a time = 42 months = 3.5 years

I suppose that God added these different methods of describing the same timeframe, in order that people wouldn't foolishly say that it is a day for a year and the 1260 days is actually 1260 years. It is described in every possible way, to avoid misunderstanding the point. The 1260 days of allotted power for the antichrist are actually 24-hour days, and equal 42 months, or 3.5 years. Daniel 7 also describes the allotted time of power of the beast (antichrist) and it is the same 3.5 year period.

Daniel 7:25 And he will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

Here we again have the abomination of desolation mentioned, when the beast will speak out against the Most High by falsely declaring himself to be God. He will be allowed to persecute the Jewish people for a time, times, and half a time (3.5 times = 3.5 years = 1260 days = 42 months).

Which takes us back to Daniel 9:27 and the week of years. All of the above shows that included in the last half of the week of years is the 1260 days=3.5 years=3.5 times=42 months of the antichrist's allotted period of power on the earth. All of the 1260 days is included in the 1290 days in Daniel 12:11, from the time of the abomination of desolation until Yeshua (Jesus) comes to reign on the earth.

The only way that someone can not believe this proof, is if they suddenly say they take all prophecy figuratively and don't believe the Bible is literal. The internal proofs for a literal end-times 7 year period are extremely strong, with the last half being 1290 days long. How will you face the facts?

[sasha123]

Excellent work, thanks

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind comment.

[185JHP]

BTTT

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the information!

For a survey of Freeper views on end times prophesy:

How it all ends (Freeper research project)

[Just mythoughts]

I do not disagree with Daniel, however, Christ Himself said in Matthew 24:22...

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mark 13:14 Christ is quoting Daniel yet in verse 20 He says the days are shortened.

[Quix]

Thanks.

Much appreciate the reminder about the survey. I wonder if we could have a more numbers oriented survey with more briefly defined options now. I wonder how it might have changed since that survey was done.

[Quix]

Have tried to get various scholars I've known to comment on what "shortened" days could mean.

Seems to me it could mean one of 3 things:

1. The number of days would be decreased.

2. The length of each day would be less hours of daylight or

3. less total--say the spin somehow results in less than 24 hours or some such.

I tend to not think it's #1. If it were #1, why would God have gone to such lengths to number the specific number of days in several different ways. Seems like that's rather emphatic.

If it's 2 or 3 . . . perhaps meteors are involved or volcanoes or some such???

Thoughts?

[coincheck]

but he will Never forsake them. jeremiah is telling them that because of their forsaking the sabbath rest of their land every seven years, and other sins, that he will judge them. it was jeremiah that told them from GOD that they will be handed over to the babylonians in judgement (this is the first time they will go into captivity, for 70years, the time to allow the land the sabbath rests it had missed.)

God also promised to bring them back into the land at the appointed time, and went so far as to name the king (cyrus) in prophesy, that would give the order to rebuild and restore the city of jerusalem and to rebuild the temple. which happened exactly as HE foretold. (in isaiah ch45. written in about 760BC, and in about 535-536BC in the first year of Cyrus' reign, he gave the order to rebuild jerusalem and its temple. ezra, ch1)

that is NOT a divorce decree, it is GOD judging his own for their disobeying his commands.

think about how GOD judged israel for their sins, then think about how HE will judge the world for totally rejecting HIS pardon for us through JESUS,HIS son.

[Quix]

BTW, none of the scholars I've asked ahve ever had anything informative to reply with. Most have said they have never thought about it. And when they consult the Greek and even consider Aramaic idioms written in Greek, they still don't come up with anything insightful to ferret out more detailed understanding.

[Quix]

that is NOT a divorce decree, it is GOD judging his own for their disobeying his commands.

think about how GOD judged israel for their sins, then think about how HE will judge the world for totally rejecting HIS pardon for us through JESUS,HIS son.
= = = =

Absolutely correct.

I have come to feel that the mentality and attitude that is so convinced such is a divorce decree--that mentality and that attitude seems to virtually always come from attitudes rather chronically given to; virtually delighting in presuming to zap folks with 'God's' lightening bolts--usually with quite an aire of haughtiness. I remain unconvinced that God buys into such at all. I think there's considerable evidence that He's hostile to that whole spirit/attitude.

All the more so regarding the blood children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

[Just mythoughts]

The word shortened = curtailed so to curtailed *days* seems to indicate time. Although none of the events Christ described as signs of His return are omitted there is the usage of the woman in travail - birth pangs. (There are several references Old and New regarding this analogy.)

To use labor as a symbolic of the *end* comes in three stages and that final one cannot be stopped without interference.

This being the case of birth pangs, no omission of events yet *days* being shortened I am inclined to believe the message is about time.

[P-Marlowe]

Hey quix. Did you ever notice that Tim LaHaye draws as much bile from Freepers as Hillary? These people all profess to be Christians, yet their hatred of a man they know little or nothing about (other than that he has sold a lot of books) is simply amazing. I don't know Tim LaHaye, but I've read some of his prophecy books and he seems like a pretty smart guy to me.

FWIW Kirk Cameron didn't hesitate at all to play the leading character in the Movie version of the books. I think that Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort have a fantastic ministry teaching people how to lead people to christ through the word of God. I'm sure if these "Christians" discovered that Kirk Cameron made money doing the Left Behind movies that they would hate him as much as they hate LaHaye.

There is sure a lot of hatred going on here. I suspect that LaHaye would be gracious enough to believe that those who do not believe like he does are sincere in their beliefs. Too bad it is not a two way street.

Love your enemies... unless they disagree with your eschatology.

[Quix]

HERE'S ANOTHER PERSPECIVE--A ROMAN ONE. FROM:

http://www.medjugorje-online.com/catholic_prophecy_the_end_times_apocalypse_catholic_saints

= = = = = =

"Are we living in the end times?"

I believe the answer could be yes, and I will tell you why.

The proof lies not in the future, but in the past... Clues are concealed in the records of saints and mystics, spanning from ancient days to our present era.

These Catholic prophecies contain powerful evidence that our generation will witness one of the greatest supernatural events the world has ever seen.. They predict an end to the world as we know it, not the end of the world as some fearmongers would have you believe.

Could saints and seers predict the future? Take a look at this disturbing prophecy written by a seer in England during the 1500s:

"When pictures look alive, with movements free,
When ships, like fishes, swim beneath the sea,
When men, outstripping birds, can soar the sky,
Then half the world shall die."

It would seem that this prophecy describes television, submarines and airplanes, yet it was written 500 years ago.

Here's a prophecy written by a seer in the 1600's:

"In Germany speaks a Man, whose sign is a strange Cross with Arms, and he speaks to his Folk and promises them Might and Dominion."

This refers to Hitler and his "strange cross with arms," the swastika. The seer goes on to describe WWII, followed by an account of the end times.

These are chilling predictions, but to quote John Paul II, "Be not afraid!" These and other prophecies conclude by saying that the world will not end after the calamities. In fact, it will be filled with peace, and "men will believe like in ancient times."

Many years of research and prayerful contemplation have resulted in my new in-depth report, Catholic Prophecy: The End Times. My name is Sean Patrick Bloomfield. I am a Catholic writer/filmmaker and the founder of Queen of Peace Productions. My mission is to inform you about the events that may lie ahead.

---

Keep reading for details on how to join our free Prophecy Alert Newsletter!

---

Terrorist attacks. Environmental devastation. Rampant immorality. Transgressions like these are rapidly increasing in our world. How long will God sit back and hold his divine breath while the world becomes a cesspool of evil, a place where even the elect are led, if not forced, into perdition?

Few can deny that natural disasters are on the rise. There are also wars and rumors of wars. These are signs foretold by Jesus himself.

This special report, Catholic Prophecy: The End Times, was put together so you can be informed about what our future may hold. It contains the most Catholic prophecies ever compiled in one book. It is also by far the newest book available on the subject.

To paraphrase Jesus, no one can know the time of His Second Coming. I am by no means attempting to give a date. Throughout history, however, there have been prophets sent to warn believers. All evidence points to this generation as the one that will bare witness to the dawning of a new era.

My intention is not to scare you, but to prepare you. This 107-page report costs only $19.97 and will be available for you to download instantly after purchase. You can be reading it within minutes. We'll give you a 100% refund if you're not satisfied. Click here to purchase or continue reading.

I also invite you to sign up for our free monthly Catholic Prophecy Alert Newsletter to be notified of predictions about our times. Click here to join!

Before you read on, however, I must warn you that some material contained in this report is troubling. I had second thoughts about publishing these prophecies because many foretell of widespread calamities, but I feel they are too important to keep silent. I just ask that you please keep the following in mind:

You must remember that these chastisements have to occur so that mankind can be reconciled with God and the earth can be cleansed, making way for a glorious new era of peace and Catholic spirituality.

The prophecies contained herein describe many world-changing events that could possibly come, including:


A major clash between Islam and Christianity
A rise in sea levels that will inundate coastal cities
Earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes and floods throughout the world
The exile and martyrdom of a pope
The destruction of the Vatican and the Church
A great sign or warning that will show the world that God exists
The rise of a Holy Emperor and Holy Pope who will restore the Church
A new enlightened age where people live in peace
Much later, the birth and reign of the Antichrist
And finally, the return of Jesus Christ, culminating in the Last Judgement

For believers and those who are prepared, there is nothing to fear. In fact, the events should be embraced as necessary purifications that will pave the way for a beautiful new awakening. Nonbelievers and those who deny God, however, have much to fear, because they will not understand these events as they transpire, nor will they know to call on God for mercy and help.

There are three reasons why I want you to read this report:


I want you and those around you to be prepared for the major events ahead.
I want to give you information that you can use to make believers out of nonbelievers.

I want you to deepen your relationship with God. He gave us these insights about the future because he loves us. Pray, pray, pray!

If you have any doubt that saints and mystics of the past could foresee future events, this report will make you a believer.

= = = = =

Note: Kathleen Keating also has a website with a lot of Roman perspective sources. She is exceedingly convinced that we are in the END TIMES and has a LOT of NWO/globalist stuff and AntiChrist stuff on her site:

http://www.kathleenkeating.com/news/

I certainly don't agree with everything she says. But she's very earnest and I believe has a relationship with Jesus. She certainly has a lot of info and research and well connected sources to ponder inputs from.