Families Challenging Religious Influence in Delaware Schools

New York Times ^ | NEELA BANERJEE

[DIM1]

A dispute in Georgetown, Del., underscores the rising tensions over religion in public schools.

I spend a fair amount of time trying to convince other religious Jews that their concerns about Evangelical Christians are baseless, and that they should cooperate with them on common objectives such as preserving Israel, protecting religious freedom, social issues etc. The incidents described in this story is exactly the kind of thing they many of them are afraid of. And, that does not include the prayers per se, but the ridicule, and exclusionary nature of some of the prayers. What do my fellow conservatives advise I tell them about this incident?

Thank you and G-d bless you,

DIM1

[an amused spectator]

Note to self:

When the mean Christians call me bad names, I must remember that they don't want to cut my head off and post the video on the Internet.

[sageb1]

ping

[metmom]

ping

[DIM1]

Dear Amused Spectator,
Ah! New benchmarks for the times. Please clarify though, is everything up to murder "just fine by you," or does it have to involve a particularly painful and gruesome method of killing in order to warrant concern?
Take your time.
No rush.

As always!
DIM1

[AlpineWest]

I have to admit to a policy breach.
I have prayed in Schools, and of course I admit to 'One Nation Under God'.
Just being honest.
And I don't ever plan to change from these bigTime rule breakers.

[jwalburg]

I know from experience that this situation is a difficult one. Not to excuse this district, but my kids have to be exposed to religious beliefs they oppose, too. That the industrialised countries are warming, and therefore destroying, the earth; that there is no "right answer" just "what you think is right"; that condoms are the best answer to AIDS; that tolerance is the greatest of all virtues; that human beings are nothing but cells,and, mostly,that promoting liberal values is the same as neutrality.

[Tired of Taxes]

I don't want to sign up for the NY Times, but I'll assume you're talking about this story.

I'd rather not debate this topic, but let me leave you with this little anecdote: At the dinner following my wedding in my husband's Presbyterian church, my mother-in-law took it upon herself to ask a family friend to say grace before the meal. He said a wonderful (and very Protestant) prayer. I stole a glance at my father - who had paid for the meal - and he didn't look too happy. He waited patiently for the prayer to finish, cleared his throat, and then said, "And now for the Catholic prayer," made the sign of the cross, and my side of the family launched into "Bless us, oh Lord..."

So, you see, in my experience, and that's only one of them, no one agrees on these things. All I know is that the person paying for the event should have some say in it. And that's all I'm going to say.

I'll give it a ping and maybe you'll receive other responses.

[Tired of Taxes]

Ping!

This Freeper is looking for some input from fellow Freepers on a topic that I know is near and dear to many here.

[DaveTesla]

Here is where the story came from.

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06b/indianriver.html
They have some great causes you can support on the sidebar.
(NOT!)

[Hound of the Baskervilles]

I am not registered to the Times but here is my view on prayer in schools. First let me say I am a Christian and I think there should never be of any kind prayer lead by a teacher or student during class time. NEVER. There should not any speeches made at graduation or other such gatherigns about Jesus or any Christian witnesssing. It is not the time and place for religious preaching or proclamation. It to me is the same kind of in your face stuff that movie stars pull when they go to accept an academy award then start pushing their politics in peoples faces. It's obnoxious. And no thanking Buddah or Krishna or Moloch either.

However any student of any denomination should be permitted to say grace over his or her lunch and join hands with others of like mind and say grace together. In addition students should be able to pray together on their own before school, around the flag pole if they agree to. There should be no bible study, no Koran study, no Torah study and no Upanishad study in any class room at any time wether lead by a teacher or by a student.

[Howlin]

Bump to that.

[American in Israel]

My take is that I prefer a free counry where people can worship as they please, not a country that is legaly restricted down to the lowest common denominator. After all in East Germany everyone could eat one type of sausage, drive the one type of car and say the one thought that was politicaly correct.

It seems pretty stupid to take a country that was founded on innovation and freedom and reduce it to a country ruled by fools and offense.

But the sheep like it that way...

[Hound of the Baskervilles]

For example these people who want to witness while making a graduation speech really get my goat. It's not the time and place for that. And frankly I really don't care one whit if Suzy Q valedictorian thanks Jesus every day for helping her get good grades and be elected a cheerleader. If she thanks Jesus and prays well that's just great but why does she feel she has to impart this to a crowd of strangers? Do they think that by doing this the ceremony will turn into an alter call? A graduation ceremony in a pubic school building in not the time or place to witness.

[wintertime]

Government schools never were, never can be, and never will be religiously neutral! It is axiomatic.

There is NO way that any government school can meet the needs of both this Jewish mother and her son and those of other religions in the school.

If the government school bans all mention of religion, then the religious children are taught to think that religion is shameful and must be hidden like a bathroom activity.this is not religiously neutral. The government in this case would be establishing the religion of Secular Humanism and undermining that of religious believers.

Also, when did our Constitution say that we had a right to free expression of religion except during government school hours? Government schools violate free speech, free press, free expression of religion, and free assembly every minute of every school day.

The solution to this Jew mother and her Christian neighbor's religious conflict is to privatize universal K-12 education.

[DaveTesla]

Yes...The sooner we God out of public view we can replace him with Hiltery.

The most offensive words on the planet:

GOD and JESUS.

Think about it.

[Hound of the Baskervilles]

And you know too there is just a difference in what people are used to. There are different religious sensibilities. Even between Christians there are different styles of worship and different ways of experiencing. For example John Hagee...ugh! I can't stand that kind of preaching! I am just not used to it. He's a fine fellow but I can't listen to him for two minutes. By the same token a person who likes Hagee might think a Catholic homily which is usually more subdued and conversational is as dull as dishwater. So when you get people who don't care for your "style" and push it on them when they don't expect it like at a graduation ceremony at a public school it makes them irritated. People don't like to admit it but religious expression has a strong element of style or art to it and some people can't stand a certain style even though they may agree with what is being said. It's just another layer of why people get upset over who gets to say what, when, where and how about their religious convictions.

[Hound of the Baskervilles]

"Yes...The sooner we God out of public view we can replace him with Hiltery."

That is a canard. And I will add that I don't think cities should use tax money to pay for nativity scenes either. However I think the way to compensate for that that is for every Church in town to set up the biggest gaudiest nativity scene they can afford right next to the street. And for every Christan to have one in their front yard. I really think Christians are doing a lot of griping because the are losing a sense of Christian privilege that we should not have had in the first place. There should not have been Christian prayer in schools in the first place.

[OriginalIntent]

There should not have been Christian prayer in schools in the first place.

Apparently the citizens who agreed to live under the Constitution in the first place thought there should be prayer in the schools where they sent their children. They did not consider this to be a violation of the first amendment or they would never have agreed to live under that in the first place.

Our citizenry did not wish to create godless schools. Even now if given an equal choice between godless schools and schools that acknowledged God, parents would overwhelmingly send their children to the schools that acknowledged God.

You have a right to your opinion and you have exactly one vote. But your opinion is on the wrong side of history.

Parents did not vote to toss the acknowledgement of God out of "their children's schools. This was done by judges who ignored the intent of the Constitution and began acting as legislators.

[DaveTesla]

" Christian privilege that we should not have had in the first place. There should not have been Christian prayer in schools in the first place."

Yes and as soon as we abolish this silly heritage it we can replace it
with the other religion; secular humanism.

Then they can pray to the earth god not to destroy us with
global warming by giving our money and control of all our energy
to our communist enemy's.
Then on to the next class, where we will introduce
"fisting" and gay lesbian bisexual trans-gender studies.
Then on to the next class where we will learn about
eternal life by killing the unborn and using their
cells.
Then off to learn about the real prophets, Karl Marx,
Trotsky, Hagel and of course our real Savior Antonio Gramsci.
Then last but not least, our social studies where we
learn all about that wicked illegal state Israel and how it is
secretly destroying the Arabs.

Yes much better prayer right??

You should go to Israel some time.
Maybe I will move over there and sue them. (NOT)
Religion is everywhere, Including the schools.
It's their heritage you see, and in many ways mine as well.
GOD loves them and so do I.