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Broken Borders: Broken Promises (Simcox-Minuteman)
ABC 15 Investigators ^ | 4/27/2006 | Staff

Posted on 07/07/2006 8:58:04 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182

Americans are donating thousands of dollars to support Minutemen patrolling the border. But you may be surprised where your money is NOT going in this 4-month investigation.

Video (Requires Real Player)


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; corruption; culturekillers; deception; disinformation; fraud; hitpiece; immigrantlist; immigration; lies; mcdc; minuteman; minutemen; moonbatoblers; murthatheminutemen; obljudas; ohplease; openborderliars; propaganda; simcox; wherestheposse
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To: axes_of_weezles
axes...

I have been watching this entire thread with great interest. There is no doubt that many of those you consider OBLers (Although if you go back to the original threads you'd find most of us are not) jump on these threads and "attack." And you are absolutely right that "certain folks post to get a rise out of other posters which self perpetuates." In fact, that would include you...and me...and about, what are we up to now, 50,000 other Freepers.

But here's the thing. There is a VERY simple way to avoid this dynamic. Your "team" needs to think before bringing this issue up on every single thread. One can usually bet on a "This is all well and good but nothing will matter until the border is fixed" post on threads about anything and everything. Positive news, negative news. The NYT is a traitor news, Star Jones was dumped by Barbara Walters news. A fatal accident in California or a freakish hurricane in Montana news. A moose bit my sister and my beeber is stuned news. It doesn't matter. Those for whom the borders are the primary issue seek to hijack nearly every thread.

Now, for a while most people tolerated it and often even agreed. Then most people, even those sympathetic to your cause began to resent it. Then came the great abuse button punching of 2006. Many of us, while concerned about border security, still resent it. The urge to yell...yes, yes we get it already so shut up we're talking about something else right now, has become completely and utterly irresistible. "Please, save it for the immigration threads," you were implored.

When that didn't work, the "OBLers" as you call them, started coming after you. We are looking for perspective and balance. We want to be able to say "Good job" over here and "We want this done better" over there without it dissolving into some kind of masochistic chickenlittlehood.

The great irony of all of this is two fold. First, you alienated supporters of your own cause and weakened your own case. Second, you are being warned. There is great potential here to hurt your cause further if reasonable care and transparent accountability is not demanded. Granted sometimes the warning has been sounded with disingenuous glee. But you can not allow that to back you so far into a corner you hurt the greater cause.

All I can say is this. This debate has NEVER been about goals. It has been about process and how we need to accomplish those goals. Screaming at each other over this will not only set border control back, it will cede control to those with even less concern about it. And frankly, of all the potential outcomes here, that is the worst one.

Thanks for sticking with me through this little rant. I wish you the very best. Good luck.

721 posted on 07/09/2006 8:13:08 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: Amelia
*crickets*

I made my views clear on this thread. What are you whining about? The ABC video is a joke. A bad one. And the continued insistence by your fellow travelers here on using SPLC communist agitprop is worse than despicable.

The organizations in question are 501c organizations that are fully accountable to the IRS and the FEC. I haven't seen one scrap of evidence that they have done anything amiss.

But I do know the character of their attackers.

Here's the real irony in all of this: Y'all love to go after regular folks who have managed to accomplish something good for America's security by standing up the grassroots. You act like them raising and spending money in their efforts is somehow dirty. But you don't make a peep as the RNC and the sycophantic captive DC organizations and the Beltway Bandits rake in literally billions to finance their Lexus' and their mansions to keep their liberal incumbents in power.

You know the sound:

*crickets*

722 posted on 07/09/2006 8:17:05 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: ohioWfan

I dont think anyone has reasonably asked him.

Sending reporters in after someone is irked, without the best of intentions 60 Minutes style, is not the best way to get questions answered.

I dont think there is a large number of MM leaders in this outfit, probably one or two. And it does take time to collect and do the paperwork up. It's probably sub contracted or contracted out at an auditor and would take a day or two to gin up a report for public consumption.

The fence building portion of the enterprise is Declaration Alliance and is a 501c4 organization. If all else fails the IRS will get them. Under the tax rules you have to spend the money on the organization and officers are limited to $50k. There is no way out from the IRS that I am aware of.

They are rightly paranoid, there are folks out on the left and right and across the border wanting to see them fail.

I do not know what charity reporting laws are federally or locally, here in Arizona.

I would think honesty is the best way to get information from them by asking through their telephone and email addresses.





723 posted on 07/09/2006 8:20:56 PM PDT by axes_of_weezles
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To: Rex Anderson

THere is a huge money making operation to this. For instance someone might want to start researching the groups that send out all these breathless and overthetops internet news releases. Are those the same organizatins that then get people to pay then 59 dollars to fax 20 senators? I have been trying to track down some of this. The media on this has often been too organized and I think that media also owns direct mail companies etc that get money off raising funds for this. It goes beyond this fence.


724 posted on 07/09/2006 8:21:32 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
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To: ohioWfan
Non profit organizations who function honorably don't have a problem with transparency.

They don't have a responsibility to be "transparent" to their enemies. They do have a responsibility to be transparent to the IRS. Do you have in your possession any information that they have violated any tax laws? I most certainly have not seen such information, anywhere, but especially on this pathetic thread, and I follow these matters very closely. If you do possess this data, please share it NOW. If you DO NOT, as a Christian, you need to stop spreading the propaganda of the enemies of secure borders poste haste.

725 posted on 07/09/2006 8:25:18 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: catholicfreeper
The bottom line seems to me to be that, if the leading lights are guilty, they besmirch the entire movement.

For those of us who have supported what they are doing..........even cheered them on from Ohio :)........it would be dispiriting if they lose all credibility because of dishonest leaders.

I know some of you have been issuing warnings for quite some time, but as I watch this video, I see Simcox indicting himself........and that's bad.

726 posted on 07/09/2006 8:25:58 PM PDT by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraqi Liberation VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: EternalVigilance
If you DO NOT, as a Christian, you need to stop spreading the propaganda of the enemies of secure borders poste haste.

Where is the fence?

727 posted on 07/09/2006 8:26:45 PM PDT by Texasforever (I have neither been there nor done that.)
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To: axes_of_weezles

If the Bushbots were on the right side of this issue, they would be raking in tens of millions of dollars, exploiting it to the max. They are the masters of exploitation.

That's why they're projecting so badly on this...they figure that the secure borders folks are bilking people, because that's what they would do if the shoe were on the other foot...

Take it to the bank!


728 posted on 07/09/2006 8:29:28 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
Spreading the propaganda?? What in the world are you talking about, EV?

I'm asking questions based on what I SEE Simcox saying on this video. That's all I've done here.

Be careful, EV. Be careful.

And don't let your personal emotion blind you to what is going on. I'm getting worried about you.

729 posted on 07/09/2006 8:30:15 PM PDT by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraqi Liberation VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: Texasforever
Where is the fence?

Ask Bush.

730 posted on 07/09/2006 8:30:59 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
If the Bushbots were on the right side of this issue, they would be raking in tens of millions of dollars, exploiting it to the max. They are the masters of exploitation.

EV where is the fence?

731 posted on 07/09/2006 8:31:26 PM PDT by Texasforever (I have neither been there nor done that.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Bush isn't asking for donations. Where is the fence?


732 posted on 07/09/2006 8:32:02 PM PDT by Texasforever (I have neither been there nor done that.)
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To: pollyannaish
All I can say is this. This debate has NEVER been about goals. It has been about process and how we need to accomplish those goals. Screaming at each other over this will not only set border control back, it will cede control to those with even less concern about it. And frankly, of all the potential outcomes here, that is the worst one.


Very well written rant.

There are many options to finding solutions to the immigration situation we now find ourselves in. The problem is that the my way or the highway crowd seems to ignore that many others are a part of the process whether they like it or not. A representative democracy allows for just that.

It's easy to sit at a computer and espouse many simple solutions without having to be responsible for the consequence they may bring. What is feasible to do with current funding, personnel and legislation are parts of the equation. And then there are the economic considerations to the country, it's citizens, businesses, etc. along with international consequences.
733 posted on 07/09/2006 8:32:37 PM PDT by deport
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To: EternalVigilance
You've gone over the edge haven't you, EV?

I now know not to expect rational thought coming from your posts.

It's been nice knowing you. I'll always remember what you used to be like......

734 posted on 07/09/2006 8:33:09 PM PDT by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraqi Liberation VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan

You didn't answer my question. What proof do you have that these 501c organizations have done anything wrong? It isn't in that feckless attack piece from a local ABC affiliate.

Do you approve of those here who are attacking Simcox using propaganda from that communist Morris Dees and the SPLC?


735 posted on 07/09/2006 8:33:53 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: deport

Thank you.

Just had to get it out of my system. I really care about this issue. I also care about what it is doing to us...and that it sometimes also seems to be at the expense of other issues.


736 posted on 07/09/2006 8:35:22 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: EternalVigilance
Strawman. There have been multiple posts from other minutemen organizations asking the same questions.
737 posted on 07/09/2006 8:35:24 PM PDT by Texasforever (I have neither been there nor done that.)
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To: ohioWfan

I'm the one who has "gone over the edge"? My friend, you're the one posting with nothing but emotion. Try dealing in facts and not leftist propaganda, and maybe you'll be able to comprehend what I'm saying to you.


738 posted on 07/09/2006 8:36:01 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance

What about all of the "rightest propaganda" posted on this thread? Where is the fence?


739 posted on 07/09/2006 8:37:12 PM PDT by Texasforever (I have neither been there nor done that.)
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To: Texasforever
Strawman. There have been multiple posts from other minutemen organizations asking the same questions.

Ah. Are they allying themselves with the SPLC and La Raza, like you and your friends?

740 posted on 07/09/2006 8:38:56 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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