Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ

Virtue Online ^ | June 20, 2006 | Hans Zeiger

[MountainMenace]

COLUMBUS, OHIO (6/20/06)-The House of Deputies of the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church today overwhelmingly refused to even consider a resolution that affirmed Jesus Christ as the "only name by which any person may be saved."

[Texas Patriot]

well with out being to Clintonian. I think it kind of depends on what you mean by "knowledge of Christ". A better question is do you believe in Jesus as the Christ. The Bible says that the devils in hell "know" who he is and tremble! but they are not saved! (not that they could be) I have friends in the aerospace industry that understand full well the physics of flight but they will not fly on an airplane, they will drive hundreds of miles to a test (on an airplane) just to avoid flying. So they know and understand all about the mechanics of flight but they don't believe or put thier "faith" in it. So the better question is Do you believe in Jesus as Christ and Savior. Do you believe you need to be saved? According to the Biblical scripture We all need to be saved. I'm not trying to proselyte you just trying to help you with your question. But in short if you mean knowledge that he existed I would say no! That wont get your ticket to heaven punched but having faith in him does.

[xzins]

The candlestick could shortly be removed.

[SoothingDave]

Thank you for the response, and I appreciate what you are saying. But you did not answer my question. Is knowledge of Christ (by this I mean knowing that He came to earth to offer us salvation through belief in His work of atonement) absolutely necessary (though not sufficient) for everyone who wishes to enter Heaven?

Devils may know of Christ, but they do not believe in Him. You are correct here. So knowledge is not sufficient to allow entry into Heaven.

I think we agree here. My question is, is this knowledge necessary for all, or are there possible exceptions?

SD

[Busywhiskers]

Heretics.

Why don't they admit they have nothing to do with Christianity and start applying for Rotary Club charters.

[SuziQ]

"This type of language was used in 1920s and 1930s to alienate the type of people who were executed. It was called the Holocaust. I understand the intent, but I ask you to allow the discharge to stay," said the Rev. Eugene C. McDowell, a graduate of Yale Divinity School and Canon Theologian for the Diocese of North Carolina.

Horse hockey. The Jews weren't selected for extinction because they weren't Christian; Hitler killed almost as many Christians as he did Jews with his killings of gypsies, people with physical and mental defects, and Christians who harbored Jews. Hitler couldn't even have been called a Christian; he just considered Jews to be a lesser species, and not worthy of inclusion in his Master Race. He looked at blacks the same way, there just weren't any in any numbers in Eastern Europe at the time.

[DaveTesla]

So will there be people in Heaven who never heard the name "Jesus"

First they will spend a millennium with him.
All will know. (except for some)

As told to John By Jesus on the Isle of Patmos

Revelation 20
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key
of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And
he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the
Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast
him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a
seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more,
till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after
that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones,
and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had
not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had
received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the
thousand years were finished. This is the first
resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the
first resurrection: on such the second death hath no
power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and
shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the
thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of
his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which
are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to
gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as
the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of
the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and
the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of
heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived
them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where
the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be
tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Other than becoming a Whore for the beast all are given a
second chance.

You may not believe me but many will have hardened the hearts
and darkened their souls that even with PROOF they will turn their back.

[ShadowAce]

A better question is do you believe in Jesus as the Christ.

While I do not disagree with your post, I would like to go one step further--The question should be "Do you accept Jesus as your Savior?" I believe that even the demons believe Christ is Man's Savior (They believe in Him in that regard), but they do not accept Him.

[ichabod1]

Presbyterians also approved "Mother, Child, and Womb" as a way of referring to the Trinity.

[Truth is a Weapon]

You are correct. Too often I have heard that metaphor used as an excuse to override or ignore a scriptural truth.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Whatever stupidity occurs, God is in His heaven and life is unfolding as He wills.

Our job is to resist Satan, in all his colorful and beguiling forms.

"Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.

Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.

For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee." -- Isaiah 41:10-13

[ichabod1]

whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

When I was a piskie I asked one of our ministers (I don't call them priests anymore) what this verse meant and he said nobody really knows what it means. Now that I'm Catholic I find that it is the Rock of Scripture on which our whole church is built. Lovely.

[nanetteclaret]

You'll notice that all of the writers of the New Testament were Apostles of Jesus, knew Him personally (St. Paul), or were transcribing the Apostles' words (St. Mark). This was one of the criteria used in choosing some of the books/letters versus others that were not, even though they were considered to be very valuable and edifying, and can be found today in collections of the writings of the Early Fathers.

[nanetteclaret]

If you read the "Catechism of the Catholic Church," you will find that all beliefs of the Church are backed up by Scripture. You can order a copy from Amazon and look things up for yourself.

[sauropod]

.

[sine_nomine]

It's all about the property (and endowments) and the pension fund.

ELCA organized itself as a corporation in Minnesota, so it is almost impossible to win again them. They define themselves as a hierarchy, which means dictatorship. I am not sure of the legal claims of the The Episcopal Church.

They sent me their tabloid for 25 years, free, until I mentioned the fact to an Episcopalian priest's son. Then it stopped.

[fishbabe]

Well,Jesus made the statement that we can only go to the Father through Him....What does a jew who died young know about getting to Heaven????After all,why should any woman or non jew listen to a obvious idiot...There are at least a 1,000 ways to get to Heaven and the liberals will show you every one of them..Jesus is just one ...

[SuziQ]

Because the Pope has absolute authority over the Roman Catholic church, he is free to define what scripture means and what it doesn't. As we have seen throughout history, as Popes change, so do various church doctrines. Scripture is our authority, not the Pope or any other man.

The Pope alone does not make any changes in doctrine. It is the Pope along with the Magesterium, the Cardinals and leaders of the Church, who make changes, or declare a doctrine infallible. There have been very few changes in doctrine, and the basic ones have never changed, though there have been a few added along the way.

[SuziQ]

These attendees are hell-bent on emasculating the church and turning it into something so perverted and monstrous that decent people will shun it like the plague it has become.

I think that was the plan all along. Those who wanted changes that suited themselves worked to get on these committees. Regular folks who are just trying to be faithful, have other things to do with their time, and don't feel the need to be 'in leadership'. This is a mistake because when the rules are made, they aren't there to guide the changes.

[Soul Seeker]

They aren't Christians then.

It's that simple.

[nanetteclaret]

"I believe it's called Transubstantiation, is the change of the substance of bread and wine into that of the body and blood of Christ. Can you point to a scripture verse, that says is what happens?"

I Corinthians 11:27-29:
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

John 6:32-69
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

***Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.***

These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.