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World Terrorism: News, History and Research Of A Changing World.
the Middle East Quarterly ^ | SPRING 2006 • VOLUME XIII: NUMBER 2 | David Kennedy Houck

Posted on 06/16/2006 2:08:19 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT

The Islamist Challenge to the U.S. Constitution by David Kennedy Houck

First in Europe and now in the United States, Muslim groups have petitioned to establish enclaves in which they can uphold and enforce greater compliance to Islamic law. While the U.S. Constitution enshrines the right to religious freedom and the prohibition against a state religion, when it comes to the rights of religious enclaves to impose communal rules, the dividing line is more nebulous. Can U.S. enclaves, homeowner associations, and other groups enforce Islamic law?

Such questions are no longer theoretical. While Muslim organizations first established enclaves in Europe,[1] the trend is now crossing the Atlantic. Some Islamist community leaders in the United States are challenging the principles of assimilation and equality once central to the civil rights movement, seeking instead to live according to a separate but equal philosophy. The Gwynnoaks Muslim Residential Development group, for example, has established an informal enclave in Baltimore because, according to John Yahya Cason, director of the Islamic Education and Community Development Initiative, a Baltimore-based Muslim advocacy group, "there was no community in the U.S. that showed the totality of the essential components of Muslim social, economic, and political structure."[2]

Baltimore is not alone. In August 2004, a local planning commission in Little Rock, Arkansas, granted The Islamic Center for Human Excellence authorization to build an internal Islamic enclave to include a mosque, a school, and twenty-two homes.[3] While the imam, Aquil Hamidullah, says his goal is to create "a clean community, free of alcohol, drugs, and free of gangs,"[4] the implications for U.S. jurisprudence of this and other internal enclaves are greater: while the Little Rock enclave might prevent the sale of alcohol, can it punish possession and in what manner? Can it force all women, be they residents or visitors, to don Islamic hijab (headscarf)? Such enclaves raise the fundamental questions of when, how, and to what extent religious practice may supersede the U.S. Constitution.

The Internal Muslim Enclave The internal Muslim enclave proposed by the Islamic Center for Human Excellence in Arkansas represents a new direction for Islam in the United States. The group seeks to transform a loosely organized Muslim population into a tangible community presence. The group has foreign financial support: it falls under the umbrella of a much larger Islamic group, "Islam 4 the World," an organization sponsored by Sharjah, one of the constituent emirates of the United Arab Emirates.[5] While the Islamic Center for Human Excellence has yet to articulate detailed plans for its Little Rock enclave, the group's reliance on foreign funding is troublesome. Past investments by the United Arab Emirates' rulers and institutions have promoted radical interpretations of Islam. [6]

The Islamic Center for Human Excellence may seek to segregate schools and offices by gender. The enclave might also exercise broad control upon commerce within its boundaries—provided the economic restrictions did not discriminate against out-of-state interests or create an undue burden upon interstate commerce. But most critically, the enclave could promulgate every internal law—from enforcing strict religious dress codes to banning alcohol possession and music; it could even enforce limits upon religious and political tolerance. Although such concepts are antithetical to a free society, U.S. democracy allows the internal enclave to function beyond the established boundaries of our constitutional framework. At the very least, the permissible parameters of an Islamist enclave are ill defined.

The greater American Muslim community's unapologetic and public manifestation of belief in a separate but equal ideology does not bode well. In September 2004, the New Jersey branch of the Islamic Circle of North America rented Six Flags Adventure Park in New Jersey for "The Great Muslim Adventure Day." The advertisement announcing the event stated: "The entire park for Muslims only." While legal—and perhaps analogous to corporate or other non-religious groups renting facilities, the advertisement expressly implied a mindset that a proof of faith was required for admission to the park. In his weblog, commentator Daniel Pipes raises a relevant and troubling question about the event: because it is designated for Muslims only, "Need one recite the shahada to enter the fairgrounds?"[7]

While U.S. law might give such Muslims-only events the benefit of the doubt, flexibility may not go both ways. There is precedent of Islamists taking advantage of liberal flexibility to more extreme ends. Canada provides a useful example into how Islamist groups can exploit liberal legal tolerance. In 1991, Ontario, Canada, passed a seemingly innocuous law called the "Arbitration Act."[8] This act permitted commercial, religious, or such other designated arbitrators to settle civil disputes outside the Canadian justice system so long as the result did not contradict Canadian law. Like U.S. authorities are beginning to do now, Canadian legislators decided to give religious groups the benefit of the doubt, assuming that they would still hold national law to be paramount.

In October 2003, under the auspices of the Ontario legislation, the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice created Muslim arbitration boards and stated its intent to arbitrate on the basis of Islamic law.[9] A national furor erupted, particularly among Canadian Muslim women's groups that opposed the application of traditional Islamic (Shari‘a) laws that would supersede their far more liberal and egalitarian democratic rights. After nearly two years of legal wrangling, the premier of Ontario, Dalton McGuinty, held that religious-based arbitrations "threaten our common ground," and announced, "There will be no Shari‘a law in Ontario. There will be no religious arbitration in Ontario. There will be one law for all Ontarians."[10] On November 15, 2005, McGuinty's provincial government submitted legislation to amend the arbitration act to abrogate, in effect, all religious arbitration.[11] Requests for Muslim enclaves within larger U.S. communities may signal that U.S. jurisprudence will soon be faced with a similar conundrum. Islamist exceptionalism can abuse the tolerance liberal societies have traditionally extended to interface between religious and secular law.

Prior to the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice demands to impose Shari‘a, the Arbitration Act worked well. Unfortunately for Canadian Jews, the repeal ended state-enforcement of agreements reached by the use of a millennia-old rabbinical court system called beit din (house of law) that had for decades quietly settled marriage, custody, and business disputes. Joel Richler, Ontario region chairman of the Canadian Jewish Congress, expressed his lament: "If there have been any problems flowing from any rabbinical court decisions, I'm not aware of them."[12] Canadian Catholics likewise were stopped from being able to annul marriages according to Canon Law and avoid undue entanglement in civil courts. Abuse of the spirit of the law, though, ended up curtailing local liberty. Rather than soften the edge between religion and state, the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice threatened to eliminate it with the imposition of Shari‘a. The Canadian experience demonstrates how flexibility can backfire when all parties do not seek to uphold basic precepts of tolerance. The Little Rock application raises the specter of a parallel situation. While The Islamic Center for Human Excellence may state it wants to create a clean-living community, might the community's extreme interpretation of Shari‘a force a reconsideration of just how much leeway the U.S. government gives religious communities?

As the Muslim community in the United States grows, an increasingly active Islamist lobby has submitted numerous white papers and amicus briefs to legislators and courts arguing for the religious right of Muslims to apply Shari‘a law, particularly in relation to family law disputes.[13] This looming jurisprudential conflict is significant for it raises issues about the rights of community members to marry outside the community, forced marriages, and the minimum age of brides, and whether wives and daughters may enjoy equal inheritance. In cases of non-family law, it raises the question about whether the testimony of women will be considered on par with that of men.

No previous enclave in U.S. history has ever been so vigorously protected by agents of group identity politics or so adamantly defended by legal watchdogs; nor has any previous religious enclave possessed the potency of more than one billion believers around the world. Islamic-only communities may also benefit from the largess provided by billions of petrol dollars to finance growth. The track record of Saudi and other wealthy Persian Gulf donations and charitable efforts are worrisome. There is a direct correlation between Saudi money received and the spread of intolerant practices. In 2004, for example, the U.S. Treasury Department froze the assets of Al-Haramein Foundation, one of Saudi Arabia's largest nongovernmental organizations, because of its financial links to Al-Qaeda.[14] Additionally, American graduates of Saudi academies advance Wahhabist interpretations of Islam inside the U.S. prison system,[15] and Saudi-subsidized publications promote intolerance inside U.S. mosques.[16]

A Muslim enclave is uniquely perilous because there are few if any internal enclaves that adhere to a polity dedicated to the active abrogation of secular law and the imposition of a supreme religious law. The concept of Shari‘a is so fundamental to Islam, that even today, prominent Muslim jurists argue over whether a Muslim can fully discharge Shari‘a obligations while residing in a non-Muslim territory.[17] Yet, in spite of this apparent conundrum, Muslims have resided peacefully in non-Muslim lands since the seventh century. In the greater context, there may be a breach in the dike for Islamist groups residing in the United States because the Baltimore and Little Rock enclaves must acknowledge the U.S. Constitution as the paramount basis of civil law.

A dissident Islamic sub-community is filled with dichotomous propositions: from the presumed supremacy of Shari‘a-based law over secular law; the melding of religion and polity versus the constitutionally mandated separation of same; to the politics of group and factionalism, versus assimilation and pluralism. To deny the settlement of a Muslim-only community based solely upon prejudices formed after September 11 would be illiberal. But the alternative, opening the door to Islamic enclaves without scrutiny, is as dubious.

The Enclave under U.S. Law Existing U.S. legal precedent, though, may provide some grounds for handling expansive demands for Islamic enclaves. U.S. legal views of internal enclaves derive from the famous 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision, in which the Supreme Court ruled the concept of separate but equal to be unconstitutional.[18] While the case revolved around the right of black children to attend white schools, it promulgated a concept that is anathema in today's world of multiculturalism: neither the state nor any constituent group could claim equality through separation.

Enclaves can exist, though. As courts have ruled on issues relating to equality under the law and upon the autonomy of religious practice, two distinctive features of internal U.S. enclaves have taken shape: first, the boundaries of the enclave should be recognized by local inhabitants. Second, the enclave cannot supersede the constitutionally protected rights of the citizens of a state.

Because most rights secured by the constitution are protected only against infringement by government action, the Supreme Court has avoided establishing a bright-line test as to the limits of religious liberty. Any religious group or individual seeking to establish an internal enclave has the right to limit residency, promulgate local rules, and perhaps even collect fees or taxes to support nominal community services.

Such enclaves do not hold final sway over the rights of non-residents, however. In Jackson v. Metropolitan Edison Company[19] and Flagg Brothers v. Brooks,[20] the court outlined constitutional protections for private citizens in which any entity, religious or otherwise, exercising governmental authority over private citizens remains subject to the provisions of the First and Fourteenth amendments. In both cases, the court affirmed that citizens of a state retain their right to "due process of law" under the Fourteenth Amendment, even when inside an enclave. These holdings, however, do not prevent enclaves from restricting the individual freedoms of their inhabitants.

The Supreme Court has ruled upon the limits of religious liberty. In Cantwell v. Connecticut, the court outlined the circumstances in which the government could act to restrict religious independence. The court held that the free exercise clause "embraces two concepts—freedom to believe and freedom to act. The first is absolute, but in the nature of things, the second cannot be. Conduct remains subject to regulation for the protection of society."[21]

Christopher L. Eisgruber, professor of law at New York University, explained. He argued that, "the Constitution permits government to nurture ideological sub-communities founded upon premises inconsistent with the constitution's own commitments."[22] He maintained that such dissident sub-communities can provide important "sources of dissent"[23] and asserted that even if an enclave embraced ideals contrary to constitutional ideals, it should still be granted the right to pursue its own vision of good. For example, he wrote:

[Though] it is regrettable that young women in Kiryas Joel [a Satmar Hasidic enclave] will grow up in a starkly sexist culture, and it is regrettable that the Amish children of Yoder will find it very hard to become astronomers or lawyers … it would also be regrettable if the United States were not home to any sub-communities which, like the Satmars or the Amish, rejected principles of justice fundamental to the American regime.[24]

According to Eisgruber, tolerance of the intolerant is fundamental to the freedoms espoused by Western liberal democracy. While Islamists might use such logic to argue for the permissibility of Shari‘a communities, such tolerance has limits. Enclaves do not have carte blanche to act. Both the state and national legislatures must retain control over the extent of accommodation, and there should be no subsidization of the enclave by the government.[25] Such limits ensure that the government can constrain those sub-communities that might espouse more radical, violent, or racist views.[26]

It is usually when the U.S. government moves to uphold the rule of law that most Americans first learn of an internal enclave. Few Americans knew of the philosophy espoused by anti-government activist Randy Weaver until 1992 when the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol and Firearms raided his compound at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, killing Vicki Weaver, their infant son, Sam, and the family dog.[27] Nor did many Americans know about David Koresh and his religious views until a raid the following year on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, in which a resulting fire killed fifty adults and twenty-five children under the age of fifteen.[28] While tragic, such events involved cults or political splinter groups. The growth of Muslim enclaves raises the specter of such conflicts occurring on a much larger scale.

While the court has interpreted the establishment clause to empower the government to constrain dissident sub-communities when necessary to protect public safety, it has been wary of addressing legal issues requiring intrusion upon the religious polity. Because the First Amendment provides for religious freedom, the court has confined itself to ruling upon three basic issues: property disputes between national religious hierarchical organizations with affiliated breakaway entities; accommodations under the free exercise clause; and the prohibition against the establishment of a state religion. New challenges, though, may lead to new interpretations.

The Antithesis to Democracy Is concern over internal Muslim enclaves justified? On their face, the fundamental principles of the internal Muslim enclave are no more invidious than any other religious enclave. But ideology matters. Many proponents of an Islamic polity promote an ideology at odds with U.S. constitutional jurisprudence and the prohibition against the establishment of a state-sponsored religion. The refusal to recognize federal law makes Islamist enclaves more akin to Ruby Ridge than to the Hasidic and Amish cases cited by Eisgruber.

Muslim theologians describe Islam not only as a religion but also as a system of state. The Qur'an—viewed by Muslims as the word of God—is replete with instructions about governance. An enclave promoting Islamic mores does not necessarily restrict itself to a social atmosphere but also one of governance. Traditional Islamic law controls the most basic aspects of everyday life and may make any Islamic enclave irreconcilable with the basic presumptions of Western liberal democracy and secular law.

While many American Muslims practice Islam and embrace the fundamental principles of the U.S. Constitution, others do not. There are consistent attempts by Islamist elements overseas to strengthen their own radical interpretation of Islam at the expense of moderation and tolerance. Saudi donors, for example, have propagated the ideology of Islamism, which seeks to interweave a narrow and often intolerant interpretation of religion into an all-encompassing political ideology. The number of imams and jihadists who have been outspoken in identifying the supremacy of Shari‘a to democracy underlines the incompatibility of Islamism and democracy. The late Saudi theologian, Sheikh Muhammad bin Ibrahim al-Jubair, for example, stated,

Only one ambition is worthy of Islam, to save the world from the curse of democracy: to teach men that they cannot rule themselves on the basis of man-made laws. Mankind has strayed from the path of God, we must return to that path or face certain annihilation.[29]

Prior to Iraq's January 30, 2005 elections, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, released an audiotape in which he declared war upon democracy and denounced its tenets as "the very essence of heresy, polytheism, and error."[30] Nor is Islamist antipathy for democracy limited to popular elections. According to a Saudi publication distributed at a San Diego mosque, "[Democracy is] responsible for all the horrible wars … more than 130 wars with more than 120 million people dead [in the twentieth century alone]; not counting victims of poverty, hunger and disease."[31] Such sentiments reflect a common theme among Islamists: democracy is the antithesis to everything pious and pure in Islam; and, in truth, democracy is the direct and substantial causal effect of Muslim suffering and injustice in the world today.

This does not mean that Islamists are unwilling to use democracy for their ends. But while they accept the trappings of democracy, they continue to reject its principles because the Shari‘a, to them the perfect rule of law, cannot be abrogated or altered by the shifting moods of a secular electorate. Mohamed Elhachmi Hamdi, editor-in-chief of the pan-Arab weekly Al-Mustakillah, explained,

The heart of the matter is that no Islamic state can be legitimate in the eyes of its subjects without obeying the main teachings of the Shari‘a. A secular government might coerce obedience, but Muslims will not abandon their belief that state affairs should be supervised by the just teachings of the holy law.[32]

He could draw from plenty of examples. In 1992, for example, Ali Balhadj, a leader of the Islamic Salvation Front in Algeria, declared, "When we are in power, there will be no more elections because God will be ruling."[33] While mayor of Istanbul, Islamist Turkish politician Recep Tayyip Erdoðan quipped, "For us, democracy is a streetcar. We would go as far as we could, and then get off."[34] As he eviscerates the judiciary, many Turks wonder about his sincerity.[35]

Experience abroad is relevant, as it goes to the heart of the sincerity of proponents of the Little Rock and Baltimore enclaves, an issue compounded by the willingness to accept donations from Persian Gulf financiers.

Conclusion How Muslims reconcile Islamic polity within the confines of Western liberal democracy is an unresolved issue. This process will take years to evolve and is likely to convulse in further violent episodes. Presently, many Muslims reject wholesale the notion of a dominant secular law and instead seek the imposition of a pan-Islamist state under the guidance of Shari‘a. These Islamists view secular modernity and the democratic practices of radical egalitarianism, individual rights, and free exercise of religion as a direct and substantial threat to their belief system, and they are intent on employing violence against the West for the foreseeable future. The remainder and majority of the Muslim world must reject nihilism and engage in widespread debate regarding Islam's role within the world community.

The local planning commission in Little Rock, Arkansas, might proceed with the proposed Muslim enclave, but the Arkansas courts and its legislature should not abdicate its responsibilities to ensure that Western liberal rights and protections remain supreme. The government should monitor both the rhetoric and behavior of these communities. As the Supreme Court stated in Cantwell: the freedom to believe is absolute, but the freedom to act, in the nature of things, cannot be, especially as to the safety and preservation of the American democracy.[36]

David Kennedy Houck is an attorney at Houck O'Brien LLC, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.


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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

Tomorrow is fine with me, when you are ready.

Thanks for doing the hard work.......


4,561 posted on 08/06/2006 9:34:24 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (Only a nation that protects its nation, deserves it.................)
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

Davey, you would be a civilian casualty, you do not have a uniform.

Of course, the American Flag, is to my thinking, a uniform.


4,562 posted on 08/06/2006 9:37:04 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (Only a nation that protects its nation, deserves it.................)
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

let us go to see Jesus<<<

Maybe you hit the answer.

I had thought it was hospitals and doctors who want to show a profit.

But, it could also be wanting to keep us from seein Jesus.

When he has my room ready, I will go.

I think some people, are afraid that we can keep checking on them after we are gone, so beware, if you start getting hard thumps on your noggin..................LOL


4,563 posted on 08/06/2006 9:41:00 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (Only a nation that protects its nation, deserves it.................)
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

There were a bunch of shootings in the Richmond and Oakland, Calif. areas.

They almost never show up on the news.

Thanks for the list........


4,564 posted on 08/06/2006 9:44:19 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (Only a nation that protects its nation, deserves it.................)
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To: nw_arizona_granny
the American Flag


I have one hanging outside so I am a soldier. LOL

The one I am most proud of is one I received from my brothers friend that was in Iraq.

We sent care packages over to the troops and they sent me a flag that was flown on one of their missions.

He is airforce. The flag is folded in a shadow box with my name and the mission on it. I cried.
4,565 posted on 08/06/2006 9:45:46 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

The Agenda 21 article needs to cross the country, can you send it to a few or many?

Would also work as a seperate thread, don't see why not, as others would............LOL


4,566 posted on 08/06/2006 9:49:01 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (Only a nation that protects its nation, deserves it.................)
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To: nw_arizona_granny
I think some people, are afraid that we can keep checking on them after we are gone, so beware, if you start getting hard thumps on your noggin..................LOL


I don't want to hear this kind of talk, I am hoping we all go together on the same day.
GREAT BIG HUGS
4,567 posted on 08/06/2006 9:49:03 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

Laughing, as I think that reading simple and normal crime is a break, from the terror reports.


4,568 posted on 08/06/2006 9:53:11 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (Only a nation that protects its nation, deserves it.................)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

I can only do one thread at a time. Did a google unbelieveable.

Will get it going tomorrow, will dream up some way to put it all together. It will come to me in the night. LOL

Thank you billyboy clintoon


4,569 posted on 08/06/2006 9:53:52 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: nw_arizona_granny

reading simple and normal crime is a break



LOL I know I am the same way, I am going to wake up hubby.Shhhhh


4,570 posted on 08/06/2006 9:55:49 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: nw_arizona_granny

See this goin be a problem...

BP shutting down large Alaska oil field
ap ^ | 8/6/06


Posted on 08/06/2006 9:14:03 PM EDT by mathprof


BP Exploration Alaska, Inc. began shutting down the Prudhoe Bay oil field Sunday after discovering unexpectedly severe corrosion and a small spill from a transit pipeline.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1678925/posts


4,571 posted on 08/06/2006 9:59:21 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: nw_arizona_granny; LucyT; Velveeta

Paris Shuts makeshift Airport Muslim "Prayer" Rooms
WINKtv.com ^ | Aug 6th 2006 | ELAINE GANLEY


Posted on 08/06/2006 2:41:34 PM EDT by Trupolitik


PARIS- Police have shut down makeshift Muslim prayer rooms at Paris' two main airports after they came under scrutiny following a far-right politician's allegations that Islamists were compromising security.

Officials insist there was no threat. But the prayer sites set up by Muslim workers in cloak rooms, depots and other areas at Charles de Gaulle and Orly airports were quietly shuttered. There are three official prayer rooms still open at each airport, just as there are chapels for Christians and synagogues for Jews.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1678771/posts


4,572 posted on 08/06/2006 10:07:08 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

He is airforce. The flag is folded in a shadow box with my name and the mission on it. I cried.<<<

Yes, tears would be in order.

Thank you for sending the packages to them.

LOL to add a little Dr. Bill intel:

"Of course the earth is warming, it has been doing so a little at a time since the last Ice Age".......................LOL


4,573 posted on 08/06/2006 10:11:48 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (The American Flag, should be all the uniform an American needs to join the battle to save America...)
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

LOL, no not the same day, I have been saving your 'thumps'....

Still laughing, when I was small, my granny would use her thumb and finger to thump me on the head, when she wanted my attention, or I was up to no good.

She was less than 5 foot and so very hump backed from a life time of very hard work.

I grew to 5'8 and a half inches, so my head was out of reach.

So she would hit my back, at her level, one good thump.

I couldn't understand, when my daughter was about 14, why she suddenly wanted to go and visit my grandmother........

Then I heard her tell a young friend who was with her,
" I just love to see my mother get beat up, by her granny"....


4,574 posted on 08/06/2006 10:17:32 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (The American Flag, should be all the uniform an American needs to join the battle to save America...)
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

I do hope you plan on sharing your google, it has to be good, if clinton is in it.

I dare not cut loose on clinton, like how much the arabs have given him and hilary.

his stay in Russia was an interesting google, when I was learning how......to google.


4,575 posted on 08/06/2006 10:20:42 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (The American Flag, should be all the uniform an American needs to join the battle to save America...)
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT; milford421; Velveeta

Of course, you know what I am thinking about the BP pipeline shutdown.

Did you see all those reports that I posted, on russia and pipelines?, should be the last 2 pages, it started showing up this morning, with that Global report from Israel.

Could Russia have a reason to cause a war and interfer with the Israel area pipeline?


4,576 posted on 08/06/2006 10:24:21 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (The American Flag, should be all the uniform an American needs to join the battle to save America...)
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To: nw_arizona_granny
"Of course the earth is warming, it has been doing so a little at a time since the last Ice Age".......................


Have you ever rode a motorcycle in the winter. The closer you get to the city like Atlanta it gets warmer.

I thought I would die when we left one night from our small town riding on New Years Eve to downtown Atlanta.

By the time we got to the city I wasn't cold at all.

And the north and south pole how do they know it is not freezing in another place.

This makes me mad too, now days just about everything does.

Now I know why all those old people in Florida act pi$$ed all the time. The whole world is up to nothing but foolishness.
4,577 posted on 08/06/2006 10:35:47 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: nw_arizona_granny

I do hope you plan on sharing your google, it has to be good, if clinton is in it.



I will just trying to make it all fit together and we are going to bash clintoon, too.


4,578 posted on 08/06/2006 10:37:30 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: nw_arizona_granny
Could Russia have a reason to cause a war and interfer with the Israel area pipeline?


Very good question I wonder what got you on all those pipelines. Hold on let me put my tin foil hat in place..........................................

OK now my theory has always been that "THEY" want to keep the US as "pristine" as possible so they can live here and have all the working middle to lower class live in all the third world countries.

Did you know the US has more wilderness than any other place in the world?
4,579 posted on 08/06/2006 10:46:06 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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To: All

Greece on standby for possible oil slick from Lebanon



The Greek authorities on Tuesday said that clean-up crews and the coast guard airplanes were on standby in case a massive oil slick from Lebanon -- where an Israeli air strike damaged fuel depots and released 150,000 tons of crude oil into the sea -- should approach Greek shores.

According to the oil slick monitoring program Med Slick 4 Point One on Cyprus, the huge oil slick formed was floating three to four nautical miles (five to 6.5 kilometers) from the Lebanese shore, was very close to the coast of Syria and was expected to reach the Turkish coast, while it was moving very fast due to rough Lebanese seas.

The Greek merchant marine ministry has mobilized services in the southeast Aegean and Crete to deal with any possible pollution reaching Greek waters and to patrol waters for any sign of such pollution.

Greece will also use the oil-slick monitoring satellite ROSES, which will pass over the Aegean on August 2, 5, 7 and 8 and is in contact with foreign services to track the course of the slick.

http://english.people.com.cn/200608/02/eng20060802_289135.html


4,580 posted on 08/06/2006 10:51:07 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
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