Can't Complete High School? Head Straight for College

New York Times ^ | May 30, 2006 | Karen Arenson

[gallaxyglue]

By KAREN W. ARENSON Published: May 30, 2006 It is a kind of Alice-in-Wonderland idea. If you do not finish high school, head straight for college. Suzanne DeChillo/The New York Times ...But many colleges — public and private, two-year and four-year — will accept students who have not graduated from high school or earned equivalency degrees...In New York, the issue flared in a budget battle this spring. There are nearly 400,000 students like Ms. Pointer nationwide, accounting for 2 percent of all college students, 3 percent at community colleges and 4 percent at commercial, or profit-making, colleges, according to a survey by the United States Education Department in 2003-4. That is up from 1.4 percent of all college students four years earlier....(S)ome educators say even students who could not complete high school should be allowed to attend college. Nowhere is this contradiction more evident than in California. This year, 47,000 high school seniors, about 10 percent of the class, have not passed the exit examinations required to graduate from high school. They can still enroll in many colleges, although they are no longer eligible for state tuition grants. State Senator Deborah Ortiz, Democrat of Sacramento, has proposed legislation to change that. "As long as the opportunity to go to college exists for students without a diploma," Ms. Ortiz said, "qualifying students from poor or low-income families should remain entitled to college financial aid."

[gallaxyglue]

Once in a while, the liberal NYTimes has something that is noteworthy. Isn't our educational system dumbed-down enough? Shouldn't college entrance mean more than remedial work to "catch up?" And taxpayer's money paying for these people to "become educated?"

An education used to mean something.

[Hydroshock]

I know of several students who take what are called dual credit courses in a local community college. English, math, history, government all are open. They take the college course and get credit for in college and high school. For obvious reasons they recommend it for only the top 1/3 or students.

[Huck]

College is a waste of money and time. So very thankful am I to have skipped it. High school was a 4 year jail sentence. Freedom begins where school ends.

[aft_lizard]

I think anybody who passes an entrance exam should be allowed to goto college.

But people like that lady who was afraid to take her GED because she might fail, well shes the type that needs to be weeded out,

[Zeppelin]

*****College is a waste of money and time. So very thankful am I to have skipped it. High school was a 4 year jail sentence. Freedom begins where school ends.*****

I would agree that college is not for everyone, but how can you make such a statement?

If it werent for college educations, particularly in the sciences (I'm about to graduate as a mechanical engineer myself), we couldnt push the envelope of our technologically-driven industry.

[TruthShallSetYouFree]

"He asked, 'Don't you have to have a high school diploma to go to college?' " she said. "I was like, 'No, not anymore.' "

Anyone who uses the term, "I was like..." in place of "I said..." should not be allowed to go to college. In fact, they should not be allowed to go to any school. He or she should be shot as a warning to others who are denigrating our language to the point of oblivion.

(Yes, I'm kidding. But, still...)

[after dark]

It depends on what degree she is choosing. If she is majoring in diesel mechanics at a community college , I do not see why she must have four years of high school.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The important thing is that the colleges siphon their money and saddle these people with as much student loan debt as possible before they wise up enough to realize what a bad idea it is to have tens of thousands of dollars of education debt and nothing to show for it.

It doesn't matter to the schools how badly the kids fail, as long as they get their money.

[atomicpossum]

College is a waste of money and time. So very thankful am I to have skipped it. High school was a 4 year jail sentence. Freedom begins where school ends.

I used to feel that way. As I've gotten older, though, I've come to regret not going. If your life's the way you want it, that's great. But from my perspective, I think I would be better off if I had gone. Once the kids are a bit older, I might.

[Fruitbat]

In the late 1980's and early 90's, federal investigators found many commercial colleges effectively sweeping unqualified students, many without high school credentials, from the streets into their classrooms to collect their financial aid. The students then dropped out and defaulted on their government loans.

As they say, follow the money.

To prevent that, the government now requires that before students lacking high school credentials can qualify for financial aid, they have to pass a test approved by the federal Department of Education to show they have the "ability to benefit" from higher education.

I'm sure those testing standards are grueling. /s

I'm not averse to not having a HS diploma to get into college. But there should be at least an entance exam that each school/college/univ. administers and that is written by that school. Someone can then keep tabs on that and maintain a rating system so that there are standards there for would-be employers.

HS's these days are a cut above worthless other than for minimally acceptable standards. In fact, a debate of this nature may do something to reassess our public school system. Even our college system is tantamount to NPR except that people pay for it.

Technical disciplines in the upper class years are different.

When I hire I pay much less attention to academic credentials, since many are meaningless, and much more to how well spoken a person is, whether or not they can seem to think beyond what they've been told, and whether or not they can interact with others, customers, effectively.

There are people with high GPA's that are morons "on the street."

[AD from SpringBay]

(S)ome educators say even students who could not complete high school should be allowed to attend college.

Just so long as they are allowed to fail when they can't complete the work.

[Huck]

Yeah, to be honest, I have to make an exception for hard science. I should probably say "liberal arts" education is a waste of time and money and leave it at that. That covers high school and most college. But you're right, engineering and other hard sciences are necessary disciplines that require high level education. Then again, I'm sure engineers are required to take some real waste-of-time courses to get their degree.

[Huck]

Better off how?

[dawn53]

Our son started dual credit in 10th grade (we had homeschooled before that) and he graduated with his AA this year, he was in 12th grade.

He did not have a high school diploma, but earned high school as well as college credits for the work, and it is noted on his transcript that he earned a high school diploma from homeschool (I did have to submit a transcript and just included all the courses he had taken at the college .... he had 78 hours in the three years and needs 51 to complete his major.)

He's entering the state university in the fall as a junior, and we had no problem at all with his acceptance, even though he doesn't have a traditional high school diploma. Also had no problem getting full tuition scholarship, and the dual credit in our state is free, so it makes for a very low cost way to send your kid to college (we did have to pay for books.)

[taxcontrol]

To be honest, I'd much rather see a HS ROTC program or a "entrepreneur program" than most of the "college prep" material currently pushed by the education thought police.

[AnAmericanMother]

I am informed by my 18 year old daughter (who just graduated high school) that use of the form "like" indicates a paraphrase rather than an exact quote, and thus actually has a justification!

(I don't know if I buy this explanation or not - and certainly the writer of this piece doesn't know this because the statement is garnished with quotation marks.)

[LetsRok]

You go to college to get an education, not learn a job skill. These are two different things.

[Huck]

"I was like" and "I said" don't mean the same thing. The way I interpret it, "I was like" invokes something of a re-enactment. It isn't merely a recounting of what was said, it is an acting out of how it was said. "I said" merely refers to the words. If one wishes to impart the tone of voice, the emotion, or the attitude with which those words were delivered, one would have to add further description (e.g., "I was so appalled; I was ready to scream. So I answered back, my voice quivering with nerves..") But rather than do that, people just say, "I was like..", which clearly and plainly represents not just the content, but the way it was delivered. Grammar snobs are always the last one's to accept changes in language.

[Huck]

Who said anything about job skills? Not I. Paying for an education is a waste of time, now more than ever.

[longtermmemmory]

College is now a vocational school for the hard sciences and strict accademics.

It is no longer a place to become a well rounded individual.

(we have arrived at brave new world where classic literature is no longer known)