Posted on 05/17/2006 7:47:58 AM PDT by Pukin Dog
Edited on 05/17/2006 8:30:59 AM PDT by Lead Moderator. [history]
"A house divided against itself cannot stand." – Abraham Lincoln, 1858
It is getting somewhat strange around these parts when not only the President, but yesterday the First Lady was personally attacked by someone claiming to be a ‘Conservative’. Can there be any doubt that there are forces among us looking to drive a wedge between us?
A few weeks ago, this forum’s owner attempted to remind all of us of the big picture, that regardless of any personal animosity towards the President or Republican Party over their adherence to Conservative principles, that they are still a clear choice over the alternative Democrat Party rule. At that time, I assumed that FReeper-sanity had been restored, and that some of the negative rhetoric aimed at those in Washington D.C. would be dialed back.
Free Republic is a political forum with a proud history and vision, responsible for dragging Dan Rather from his post, and providing countless radio-talk shows with their daily talking points. FReepers are unique in their determination and energy towards protecting and defending the goals of our Founding Fathers.
We are also quite a powder keg of emotion and anticipation, expecting our Republican majorities to take advantage of this opportunity to make permanent gains in our Conservative agenda. Some might argue that this opportunity has been squandered, but those persons would be ignorant of history, lacking understanding that change cannot occur overnight in Washington, and that this is the way our Founders designed our Republic.
In frustration, impatience, and ignorance, we have allowed this forum to become a haven for those who do not share our Conservative goals. I do not blame our enemies anymore then I would blame a scorpion for stinging me. If anger and stupidity were one’s nature, I would expect the trolls that infect this forum to be angry and stupid consistently, which also makes them somewhat easy to detect.
The trolls are not the problem, though. The problem is that so many of us are allowing ourselves to be taken in by those who seek only to prevent us from going to the polls in November to keep their stinking hands off our government for another term. There can be no doubt, that no matter how disappointing our current government has been in promoting the Conservative agenda, that the alternative, enabled by our staying home will be MUCH worse.
The way to deal with Republicans who have actively worked against our goals is to defeat them in Primary elections. We do not even have to defeat them all, only enough of them to send the message that we will indeed target them if they work against our agenda. It should be the goal of EVERY conservative to see that Lincoln Chaffee is defeated in November. His seat is one we can afford to lose. Were I a Rhode Island resident, I would vote for the Democrat if only to send a message to Snowe, Hagel, Collins, Graham, and especially that bastard Specter that their primaries just got a lot tougher.
We only need to get one of them, and Chaffee is the one to get. It does not really matter if a Democrat takes his seat; he will be junior and mute as long as we maintain our overall majority in the Senate.
The one thing that bothers me here like nothing else, is the simple disrespect of the President. Am I am Bush-Bot? Damn straight I am. If you want to know why, click on my handle to read Southack’s excellent list of Bush’s accomplishments in office. But if Bush had done almost nothing in office, it would be no excuse for some of the slights and disrespect he has received from some of us on this forum.
Some of the things I have read here this past week match in tone what one can find on our favorite Democrat sewer site. Someone calling himself or herself a FReeper was promoting shooting aliens at the border until they stopped coming. Is that what we are about? Obviously not, and that so-called Conservative has been eliminated from this forum.
I think it is important to remember that you and I have just as much responsibility as George Bush does in changing our culture to better reflect Conservative values. Right now, this very moment, Conservatives have the government they deserve. We put them there. They are not our mommies and daddies sent out to bring home our Conservative bread. That responsibility lies with all of us. These Republicans represent us, they don’t serve us. Our job is to pick the best individual and send him/her to Washington in the hope that their CHARACTER will see them through.
This is why it is such a nutty thing to consider punishing the Republican party, when we should be letting them know that we’ve got their back, but if they cant do the job, we will replace them with ANOTHER Republican, instead of handing the reigns of government to the party of anger, hopelessness and despair. We sometimes like to think that those people we send to Washington are different from us, that they are capable of meeting our every need and desire.
I want every one of you to think about what you would consider to be your perfect mate. Maybe some of you think you have found that person. If you are married and totally in love with another person, that is great. Now I want to ask you to think about the last time that person you love, who is PERFECT for you, completely pissed you off. Remember, this is your perfect mate, your one true love. Do they do everything you want them to do? Obey your every desire? If you answer yes, I am going to put you on my troll list.
Those people in Washington do not even cut your lawn, yet you expect perfection. Get over it.
I am issuing a challenge to every person who considers him or her to be a Conservative; why don’t we all commit to a return to HONOR? Do we honor our Conservative agenda when we comport ourselves in disgraceful ways? Is it an honorable thing to suggest that our President is a moron, as I read here a few days ago? Is it honorable to attack Laura Bush or any other person representing true Conservative values?
Some of you might argue that George Bush is not representing Conservative values to your liking. I would remind you that the first thing Bush said upon taking office, is that he was going to be President of ALL the people, not just some. You know that if you followed Bush from the beginning that he campaigned of the very immigration platform he is defending right now. Did you vote for him? Yeah?
If you have ever had a steak at a Ruth’s Chris restaurant, you know that sometimes they bring that wonderful steak to your table with a sprig of parsley on it. I hate parsley. Hate it. If I were to treat my steak the way some of us want to treat our President, I would have to throw out the steak, due to that nasty parsley that comes with it. I can deal with the parsley to get the steak, and that is what I am asking FReepers to do.
Expecting perfection from any person, group or team is a recipe for disaster. George W. Bush is my president. You can disagree with him, you can blame him for your problems if that is your desire. If you disrespect his office, his service, his risking his life to be with our troops in Iraq, his steadfast desire to bring a new tone to Washington, or if you just like the way he keeps Democrats so pissed off they lose their minds on a regular basis, I ask you to treat him and his wife with respect and cut the personal attacks. If you call him ‘Shrub’ or ‘Jorge’ consider yourself my enemy.
Right now, our real enemy are the Main Stream Media, the Democrat Party, and all who follow and support them. If you want to jump-ugly on someone, why not start with those leaky bastards and give our side a break?
Do it for Pukin.
I knew that you could.
Same here. I had almost stopped surfing FR entirely....until it occurred to me that the obnoxious, mindless, narrow-minded thread hijackers and sleeper trolls want exactly that.
This forum is about opinion and debate. Some alleged conservatived have effectively stopped us from airing opinions and debating.
"I will support our President till my last breath."
I am at a loss for words other than I couldn't say it better myself!
Which means all the yelling at the border security folks that they want the Dems to win is absurd
This point could stand to be made a few more times, for the benefit of the hard-of-thinking.
How you doin'?
Good point, which I'll have to accept. Like the wise man said, facts are stubborn things! Having said that, this is still only one issue, and the Democrats oppose him on so many others in which is correct--- most importantly, the most important issue of our time--- the WOT.
That is the problem with this thread and maybe the county. I can see someone supporting the Constitution or their country or family with their last breath, but the President? I think some would support the Republican party over anything including the nation's best interest. I have not been able to vote very long but it has been 100% Republican so far, but I would vote for the right person over the party every single time.
This thread started with no other intention but to attack the Conservative members of FR. The fact that the attackers are in the minority according to everything I have seen would never be apparent if one were to only read this.
Ping for later
Exactly. Bush couldn't pass the Senate's McCain-Kennedy immigration proposal without strong support from the Democrats. The recent Senate votes prove that. Instead of backing the passage of HR4437, Bush wants to grant amnesty and offer a path to citizenship to 15 million criminal border crossers and millions of their kinfolk.
>>>>Which means all the yelling at the border security folks that they want the Dems to win is absurd - because the man they are backing on this issue, President Bush, is allied WITH THE DEMS.
Right. Bush is allied with the Democrats on this issue and his supporters are backing a highly liberal immigration policy.
The historic record is quite clear. After PresReagan signed the IRCA amnesty of 1986 into law, Ted Kennedy proceeded to underfund the employer sanction provisions, followed by 20 years of Bush41, Clinton and Bush43 NOT enforcing the law of the land.
Here we go again.
There is nothing in the original post or subsequent posts by PD that bear this out. PD in a border-hawk (at least a convert). His post, and many by myself and others, take issue with the STYLE that many border-hawks use to argue. It pains me to admit I agree with some of 'em.
I agree entirely. What is absolutely crazy about Bush's immigration stance is that it represents a real threat to the GOP's continued hold on the House - so in his zeal to circumvent the House GOP to get his guest worker program, Bush could well trigger events that lead to Dem control of the House - and his subsequent possible impeachment. That is what is so bizzare about this situation, IMO - what in the hell is so important about a guest worker program that Bush is willing to stake the GOP House on getting it through.
I actually have the answer to that question.
Over the past few years, I have participated in this debate, I have supported the presidents proposals in the face of severe criticism from most on this forum.
Time and time again, they bring up the '86 reforms and how the same promises of a fix were made then and the plan failed. They use the porosity of the border as if it were the only reason the '86 reforms failed, and that entire premise is faulty in a number of ways.
First, we had increased border security since 1986, on several occasions. each of those efforts ended with more and more illegals who crossed and then became essentially trapped on the American side of the border for fear of getting caught coming back in after a Xmas visit during the off season, and subsequently screwing up their application for a Green card, so the rational thing was to stay, even though the harvest season was over, and this is how social service began to feel the pinch of the increased number.
This is just one of the unintended consequences of increasing border security without addressing the underlying problems.
The '86 reforms failed largely due to failure to regulate the business environment. The increased border security and various tweaks in the code to ramp up penalties for illegal entry caused a new industry of fake documentation, coyote human traffickers, and all the nuances in between. it caused a large segment of employment for illegals to move underground where the Fed has no visibility, and no way to interdict the human trafficking or detect it.
The courts also extended rights to the illegal and the system broke down under the numerical strain. This happened with far fewer illegals then we have today and has continued.
So........It seems obvious to me, that border security alone was indicated long ago as being a failure, and doing the same thing again, hoping for a different result is foolhardy logic.
We have to address it all, and at the same time, shifting resources where needed, and setting of the logistics in a big way to deal with a big problem.
The pressures on the border must be relieved, so that border protection does not take all the resources we have. We must address business regulation, the courts, the banking industries and at the same time, refrain from damaging the delicate local and state economies, or nobody in these affected areas will participate in the reforms, in fact they will fight them and it will be all for nothing again.
This problem is indeed complicated in nature, and requires some comprehensive solutions that can be easily explained and managed.
A huge and very difficult task lies ahead, and we must succeed or we will end up with a huge and damaging unassimilated sub-culture that could upset our entire way of life here and cause repercussions in every area of the economic, political and social structures. It all has to be addressed simultaneously and collectively for anything to work.
It was at least 90% positive, and has some very good, practical suggestions as to things we can do to help solve the problem.
Take a look, Clancy. You may be pleasantly surprised. Freepers CAN be civil to each others........people with different views participated, and I think some real good came out of it.
It looks like an initial 870 miles of fence to me, at a cost of around nine hundred million, that's 900 million dollars. Also $900,000,000. That's dollars not nickles.
Nope, hang the man for managing to get ANY further on a fence HE'S BEEN TRYING TO BUILD SINCE 2001, WITHOUT "CONSERVATIVE" SUPPORT.
In answer to your question, my mother.
She's a Democrat and it would be hard to find someone with more conservative values then her.
"Now those same people who didn't vote for the re-election of the first President Bush want to give our troops another Clinton.
How shameful!"
Actually, this behavior is classic left wing mole behavior on the conservative sites. We have seen this deceit for over a decade, with liberal electronic brownshirt trolling moles on conservative sites, some sites were destroyed by this behavior. Only God knows how many good people were driven away by these lying spinning left wing brownshirt moles doing their trolling in the name of "real conservatives".
You're unveiling yourself with each post.
You post unsolicited drive-by insults, but don't have anything to say about HOW to bring winning, conservative principles back into the GOP.
Sightings, but no substance. A Foo Fighter. Look it up if you want to understand the reference.
Everyone, including Bush, understands that 6K troops will not seal the border. A 100,000 strong force would not be enough! They will simply go around it.
This is why the interior and ways of reducing the pressures are required to take some of the pressure off the border so that we need not put all our resourses in that endeavor and we have some left to deal with the implementation of screening and documentation for those who are here already.
We have finite resources to apply to this, and it must be done quickly and effectively.
It's like dealing with a fire ant problem. If the neighbors don't treat their property, the fire ants simply relocate. We have to deal with this along a broad spectrum of individual problems. All of it together will defeat anything we put on the border if we don't address it all.
Worse than that, the States and localities will refuse to participate, if they perceive they are being hurt by the Fed actions. Everyone has to participate or it all goes down the drain, as in 1986.
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