Federal Source to ABC News: We Know Who You're Calling

ABC News ^ | May 15 2006 | Brian Ross and Richard Esposito

[jmc1969]

A senior federal law enforcement official tells us the government is tracking the phone numbers we call in an effort to root out confidential sources.

"It's time for you to get some new cell phones, quick," the source told us in an in-person conversation.

We do not know how the government determined who we are calling, or whether our phone records were provided to the government as part of the recently-disclosed NSA collection of domestic phone calls.

Other sources have told us that phone calls and contacts by reporters for ABC News, along with the New York Times and the Washington Post, are being examined as part of a widespread CIA leak investigation.

One former official was asked to sign a document stating he was not a confidential source for New York Times reporter James Risen.

Our reports on the CIA's secret prisons in Romania and Poland were known to have upset CIA officials.

People questioned by the FBI about leaks of intelligence information say the CIA was also disturbed by ABC News reports that revealed the use of CIA predator missiles inside Pakistan.

Under Bush Administration guidelines, it is not considered illegal for the government to keep track of numbers dialed by phone customers.

The official who warned ABC News said there was no indication our phones were being tapped so the content of the conversation could be recorded.

[Mad Dawg]

Federal Source to ABC News: We Know Who You're Calling

WHOM dammit!

[mysterio]

Then I pick transparent. Because I know they can be transparent in places and still be functional. But if you want to boil it down to black and white, I say err on the side of freedom.

[P-40]

There are numerous federal statutes that may bar what is being done here.

But the existing federal statutes must themselves be Constitutional so it is six of one and half a dozen of the other.

[webstersII]

Data mining. That's not (currently) illegal.

A buddy of mine worked for a cell phone company. He told me that he could sit at his desk and pull up anyone's cell phone records and see the numbers they called, what towers were handling the call, and how long they talked. Those companies could sell that data if they choose to do so.

I asked him if they also recorded the conversation. He said they did not -- as far as he knew -- but he said it wouldn't be difficult. It's not difficult to do, just too expensive to store. Of course, storage media is getting cheaper and cheaper.

[IamConservative]

if the DOJ suspected members of the media, and persons inside the various agencies, of exchanging/leaking classifed information - they could get court orders for the phone records of those persons in about 5 minutes. they don't need the NSA to do it for them as part of this program.

If the government emplyeees are using the phone on their desk, they don't even need a court order to look at the phone records of government employees, the data would be in a goverment owned PBX in all likelihood. You could see the called party and calling party on every call going in or out of the switch. The data to identify external parties can be purchased from dozens of sources on-line and in many cases can be found for free.

[dirtboy]

Those companies could sell that data if they choose to do so.

Direct marketers don't have powers of arrest, last I checked. That is the key difference.

[Sacajaweau]

Most of us call friends and relatives and businesses we deal with. Ordinary people who work at the tel companies have that access every day!!

[Political Junkie Too]

Can I assume that you assume that the government is also getting the names with the numbers even though they claim that they are not? Otherwise, why are you concerned about a list of numbers that called other other numbers with no personal identifying information to go with those numbers?

-PJ

[liberty_lvr]

While I don't agree with your position on this particular matter, that is an outstanding and very important point. I'm glad you brought this very critical distinction to the table.

However, there are still limits on how that power may be executed. Those barriers have not yet been torn down. And remember BJ used Echelon against his political enemies. The current administration has an equal number, if not more, of enemies and I have yet to see ANYTHING suggesting any of this information has been used in that matter.

It appears we're sliding back up that slippery slope.

[Let's Roll]

That's the real problem - msm is afraid their treasonous activities will be documented.

[colorcountry]

Another poster with interesting posting history. These supposed NSA "abuses" are bringing you guys out of the wood work.

[dirtboy]

Can I assume that you assume that the government is also getting the names with the numbers even though they claim that they are not?

I don't. The names are immaterial in looking for patterns. Credit Card companies routinely separate the names and PII from the credit and demographic data, crunch the numbers, and then only append the names back to those records they wish to market according to the scores generated (they have to make an offer of credit once they join name data and financial data, so that in a way is a similar scenario to mining call patterns and then getting names once you get a "hit").

As long as you can eventually link back, you can research the calling data and get cause from just the data. And my problem is, there is nothing remotely resembling probable cause in the entire Verizon database - instead, the government is looking at the data to determine probable cause, if they are data mining. If they are not data mining, then an expedited subpeona process would get them any specifica calling data they might need.

[JeffersonRepublic.com]

[Under Bush Administration guidelines, it is not considered illegal for the government to keep track of numbers dialed by phone customers.]

My employers tracked my phone calls. They didn't record them, but they made sure that I was making the calls I said I was. If I was calling my wife, they would have known about it.

[dirtboy]

My employers tracked my phone calls.

You were using their phones on their time and their dime.

When I am at home, I expect Verizon to adhere to their privacy policy and the feds to get a subpeona if they want my phone records.

[dirtboy]

However, there are still limits on how that power may be executed.

Yes, and when they started passing seat belt laws, they said no one would ever be pulled over just for a seat belt infraction.

Now, it's gotten so bad that the Maryland State Police have night-vision googles to see if people going by at night don't have their seat belt on.

Since I know what I could do with this data (I work with marketing databases for a living), maybe I am more concerned than the average bear as to the government having it. Especially when they ain't all that great at data mining in the first place - what if a glitch makes them think that YOU are linked to al Qaeda?

And that is assuming that they are using the data in a limited and controlled manner.

[IamConservative]

If the government emplyeees are using the phone on their desk, they don't even need a court order to look at the phone records of government employees, the data would be in a goverment owned PBX in all likelihood

Another thought to annotate. If these leakers are using their cell phones while working in a government faclity, I wonder what the legality of intercepting the cell signals would be for the employer/goverment?

[Mad Dawg]

You talkin' a ME?

I was just complaining about the grammar. I'm fine with the program. People want the Gummint to be able to connect the dots but don't want them to get any dots to collect!

[Beagle8U]

"instead, the government is looking at the data to determine probable cause, if they are data mining. If they are not data mining, then an expedited subpeona process would get them any specifica calling data they might need."

Just exactly how do you prevent crime before it happens, without "data mining" ??

[Mad Dawg]

But couldn't they sell the data to those who DO have the power of arrest? (Besides, I'd rather be arrested than get another telephone solicitation, but I guess that's another issue.)

[dirtboy]

Just exactly how do you prevent crime before it happens, without "data mining" ??

I dunno - by going through the data the government already has, like they did prior to 9-11, and figure out ways to better use that? The solution to being unable to process the data you already have is not to get petabytes of more data.

I am no opposed to the government obtaining data. But there needs to be some kind of cause involved. And the Verizon data fails that test.