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Can I assume that you assume that the government is also getting the names with the numbers even though they claim that they are not?

I don't. The names are immaterial in looking for patterns. Credit Card companies routinely separate the names and PII from the credit and demographic data, crunch the numbers, and then only append the names back to those records they wish to market according to the scores generated (they have to make an offer of credit once they join name data and financial data, so that in a way is a similar scenario to mining call patterns and then getting names once you get a "hit").

As long as you can eventually link back, you can research the calling data and get cause from just the data. And my problem is, there is nothing remotely resembling probable cause in the entire Verizon database - instead, the government is looking at the data to determine probable cause, if they are data mining. If they are not data mining, then an expedited subpeona process would get them any specifica calling data they might need.

"instead, the government is looking at the data to determine probable cause, if they are data mining. If they are not data mining, then an expedited subpeona process would get them any specifica calling data they might need."

Just exactly how do you prevent crime before it happens, without "data mining" ??

Do you have reservations about the 9/11 Commission findings that we failed to "connect the dots" prior to 9/11? Do you see this as the government trying to connect the dots before another city is attacked? Could your probable cause come from the 9/11 Commission recommendation to be more aggressive in connecting the dots in the future? Since the 9/11 Commission was sanctioned by Congress, it is essentially Congress speaking when they say we need to connect the dots. I see assembling this kind of data as doing just that, with probable cause already established.

-PJ

How is that different from police walking down a street, knocking on doors and asking people who answer questions? No probable cause is needed because the streets and the doors are considered public, so as long as the police don't forcibly enter the houses it's OK.

Your post explained why I don't have a problem with this program. The phone lists don't identify me. They are "data mined", and then ONLY if the results of that work show probable cause is the information linked back to what would now be a suspect.

Your position seems to be that you'd rather have planes fly into the world trade center than give up your "freedom" from having your phone number in a government database.

Now, I would rather have an occasional plane fly into a building than have millions of americans spend hours each year in security lines at the airport that most likely won't catch anybody anyway. That is a REAL impact on my freedom to use my time as my own.