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Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer
The Scotsman ^ | May 5, 2006 | IAN JOHNSTON

Posted on 05/05/2006 8:21:56 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor

BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism, the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday.

Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth" had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.

He described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a "kind of paganism" because it harked back to the days of "nature gods" who were responsible for natural events.

Brother Consolmagno argued that the Christian God was a supernatural one, a belief that had led the clergy in the past to become involved in science to seek natural reasons for phenomena such as thunder and lightning, which had been previously attributed to vengeful gods. "Knowledge is dangerous, but so is ignorance. That's why science and religion need to talk to each other," he said.

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do."

Brother Consolmagno, who was due to give a speech at the Glasgow Science Centre last night, entitled "Why the Pope has an Astronomer", said the idea of papal infallibility had been a "PR disaster". What it actually meant was that, on matters of faith, followers should accept "somebody has got to be the boss, the final authority".

"It's not like he has a magic power, that God whispers the truth in his ear," he said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: apostacy; apostate; astronomy; catholic; catholicshurch; christian; christianity; creation; creationism; crevolist; genesis; intelligentdesign; paganism; pope; romancatholic; vatican
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Since you're not being paid, go ahead. You will anyway :-)


161 posted on 05/05/2006 2:55:16 PM PDT by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: RegulatorCountry
We're creating matter now? What's next, destroying it?

That stuff squeezes in weird ways.

162 posted on 05/05/2006 2:56:18 PM PDT by bondserv (God governs our universe and has seen fit to offer us a pardon. †)
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To: cripplecreek
It also reminds us that scientists, Christian and otherwise have been wrong about a lot of things and right about others.

Even still, Max Planck had it right.
Science advances funeral by funeral.

163 posted on 05/05/2006 2:58:46 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.)
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To: VadeRetro

What thread?


164 posted on 05/05/2006 3:06:23 PM PDT by ToryHeartland ("The universe shares in God’s own creativity." - Rev. G.V.Coyne)
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To: AlGone2001
Then one has to explain to me how the plant life existed for millions of years with out the sun.
Perhaps in the same way the plants didn't instantly die when zapped to life on cold sun-less rock?
165 posted on 05/05/2006 3:42:00 PM PDT by anguish (while science catches up.... mysticism!)
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To: PatrickHenry
Being everywhere, it's probably incorrect to speak of God as being in motion with respect to anything. And nothing is in motion with respect to God. Thus, by definition, there is no time dilation factor for God. He is the ultimate privileged frame of reference

I am not a physicist so I may be wrong but... motion relative to a "stationary reference" is but one way a time dilation rate difference may be observed, right? Two different places in space may also have an observable time dilation if the 'space' of one place is more "warped" than the other. The closer you get to a gravitational body such as a black hole, star, planet, the slower time "flows" compared to a place in space that is not as warped.

I sure hope I didn't butcher the terms too much...

166 posted on 05/05/2006 3:52:21 PM PDT by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

I'm so opposed to posting on this thread that I'm not even logged in.


167 posted on 05/05/2006 4:07:18 PM PDT by ahayes (Yes, I have a devious plot. No, you may not know what it is.)
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To: trashcanbred
You are correct. Acceleration or gravitation will result in a time difference between two frames of reference. But again, as God is present everywhere, with respect to everything, I see no possibility of time dilation when speaking of God. But I'm not a theologian; and even if I were, I couldn't possibly understand how God experiences things.

Well, I can think of something ... consider an anaconda, 50 feet long, arranged vertically with his head at the roof of a 5-story building and his tail at the ground level. Time is passing slightly slower on the ground, due to the stronger gravity there. So perhaps, like our anaconda, God could, within himself, experience various rates of time. I don't know what this means in the context of Genesis.

168 posted on 05/05/2006 4:12:33 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Unresponsive to trolls, lunatics, fanatics, retards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: bondserv
it shouldn't surprise us when we find T-Rex bones with soft tissue inside.

It would surprize me. Show me!

169 posted on 05/05/2006 5:05:10 PM PDT by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: Coyoteman

I'm having all the adventure I can handle this night, being a new, pleased, and somewhat horrified owner of a Cold Steel "chisa" katana.

O.M.F.FSM!


170 posted on 05/05/2006 5:37:20 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: King Prout
I'm having all the adventure I can handle this night, being a new, pleased, and somewhat horrified owner of a Cold Steel "chisa" katana.

May your swash never buckle.

171 posted on 05/05/2006 5:45:56 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Creationists know Jack Chick about evolution.)
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To: Coyoteman

this thing is frightfully sharp, and quite lively despite being significantly heavier than a normal katana.

I'm being VERY respectful as I learn its handling.

I think I'd be wise to make a steel-core boken patterened after its weight and balance, just to be on the safe side as I familiarize myself... If I tag myself with *this* monster, it will be, ah, bad.


172 posted on 05/05/2006 5:52:17 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: ToryHeartland
Not this one, not that I know what "this" refers to.
173 posted on 05/05/2006 6:07:00 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: King Prout

Is that Katana a sword of sorts?


174 posted on 05/05/2006 6:37:42 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: Right Wing Professor
Interesting perspective. Of course, let me be the first to point out it's one man's opinion, and certainly not canonical.

That's more charitable than I had come to expect of you...

Cheers!

175 posted on 05/05/2006 7:01:18 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: RadioAstronomer
Been there. Cool place.

Can you get me a T-Shirt?

176 posted on 05/05/2006 7:26:28 PM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: grey_whiskers
That's more charitable than I had come to expect of you...

Charming and graceful as ever.

177 posted on 05/05/2006 7:34:12 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: shuckmaster
it shouldn't surprise us when we find T-Rex bones with soft tissue inside.

It would surprize me. Show me!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1593799/posts

178 posted on 05/05/2006 7:47:16 PM PDT by bondserv (God governs our universe and has seen fit to offer us a pardon. †)
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To: andysandmikesmom

a sword, yes. single edged, curved, two-handed, with a distinct wedge-like tip. though only a traditionally-forged, folded, multi-billet, differentially-quenched blade can be accurately called a real katana, any blade patterned closely after the Japanese archetype is usually called one.


179 posted on 05/05/2006 7:59:54 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: King Prout

Wow...that was quite a description...made me dizzy...

My dad had an interest in odd things...he had an immense collection of knives of all sizes, along with billy clubs and handcuffs...he also had a small collection of swords, maybe about 10 of them...one of them he called a katana..now I dont know if it was, as you say, a real katana, or just any blade patterned after the Japanese archetype...but he sure did love these types of things...


180 posted on 05/05/2006 8:09:54 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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