Posted on 04/18/2006 8:46:31 AM PDT by hoosierboy
Michigan - Meijer and General Motors are joining forces to make ethanol-based fuel available at the discount chain's gas stations. The fuel, known as E85, will be available at about 20 Meijer stores in Michigan. However, NewsCenter 16 does not know at this time, if the store in Benton Township will be one of the selected stores.
Meijer, GM and Governor Jennifer Granholm will announce details of the plan Tuesday.
E85 is a blend of 85-percent ethanol and 15-percent petroleum-based gasoline.
About four million vehicles can use E85.
However, most owners now use regular gasoline because of the scarcity of stations selling E85.
I've never heard anybody actually say how much ethanol costs.
Better than being a slave to the middle east and chavez forever.
I only know of one station in the NW Indiana area that has E-85. It's a station (can't remember the name ) on the south side of Rt30 near Deep River.
Luddites give it a rest already!
Look, we already pay people not to grow things, so anything we actually DO grow and turn into useful energy (ethanol) is a net gain.
Bring up hybrids and people complain they don't want little cars, they want 300hp trucks. Biodiesel? The luddites say not here. Ethanol? Not as energy efficient.
But at the same time they say no to anything other than oil they also complain about the power Chavez and the Saudis and Armeni-jihad hold over us with their oil.
Well, which one is it? Wanna be beholden to sand-lords and crazed Venezuelan Marxists, or are you willing to let the new tech emerge?
I'm tired of sucking up to Islamic states and misc tinhorn dictators for oil. If this helps us out, I'm willing to pay more for it.
Also does it really make sense to not tax oil from deadly enemies like Iran and tax ethanol from allies?
Here's the announcement itself:
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=25068
-----
FOR RELEASE: 2006-04-18
General Motors Announces Collaboration With State Of Michigan, Cleanfuel USA And Meijer Gas Stations To Help More Michigan Motorists Power Their GM Flexfuel Vehicles With E85
GM Provides State with E85-Capable Chevrolet Tahoe for Use in Michigan
LANSING , Mich. – General Motors today announced plans for the addition of approximately 20 new E85 ethanol fueling sites in the southeast Michigan area through a collaborative partnership with Meijer and CleanFUEL USA. The collaboration is part of a broader, national GM campaign to boost the use and awareness of ethanol-based E85 fuel in the United States. The announcement was made today during an event at the State Capitol presided over by Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm.
“ The production of ethanol and its use present a tremendous opportunity for Michigan’s economy and the world’s environment,” said Granholm. “Using ethanol for renewable energy helps our country meet our future energy needs and we commend GM, CleanFUEL USA and Meijer for their support and promotion of this alternative fuel.”
As part of the partnership, GM will promote the availability of the fuel through consumer and dealer outreach. The effort is similar to announcements GM has already made with other state government, oil industry, ethanol producers, and retail partners in Sioux Falls, SD; California, Chicago, and Texas.
“GM already has 1.5 million vehicles on the road today that are capable of using E85 ethanol fuel. We appreciate that CleanFUEL USA and Meijer have joined our efforts to make this great fuel alternative available to more people in Michigan,” said Elizabeth Lowery, GM vice president of environment and energy. “We also appreciate the support of Gov. Granholm and the State of Michigan as we continue to promote the use of E85 and its many benefits for the environment, the economy and consumers.”
GM, Meijer and CleanFuelUSA will work together to identify retail locations in Lansing, Grand Rapids, Warren, Pontiac, Detroit, Rochester, and Brighton over the next few months, with one station scheduled to immediately open in Jackson this week.
Michigan is currently among the nation's leading corn producers with more than 257 million bushels a year and is 11th in the nation in terms of overall ethanol production. The state is also home to one of the largest concentrations of GM’s E85 flexible fuel vehicles in the country with 140,000 GM company vehicle drivers and members of the general public.
"CleanFUEL USA develops the technology required to use alternative fuels in vehicle engines and to distribute alternative fuel to customers and one of our primary missions is to make alternative fuels available as quickly and efficiently as possible to everyone,” said Russell C. Youngdahl, Jr., CEO and director, CleanFUEL USA. “This partnership represents a significant step forward in accomplishing that mission in Michigan."
Meijer continues to develop partnerships to promote alternative fuels. “We are thrilled to provide our customers choices such as E85 that will enhance the environment and provide greater independence from foreign fuels,” said Judith Clark, communications director for Meijer. “We find Southern Michigan to have a larger portion of flex fuel vehicles and this will allow convenient fueling locations for our consumers.”
GM also provided an E85-capable Chevrolet Tahoe to the state for use in Michigan as part of a campaign to promote ethanol and E85-capable vehicles. As part of the campaign, the governor’s office will showcase the vehicle in various ways and events throughout the year.
The announcement is part of a campaign by GM and the Governors’ Ethanol Coalition (GEC), a bipartisan group of governors devoted to the promotion and increased use of ethanol . GM provided Michigan with an E85-capable Chevrolet Tahoe for similar use in 2005. This collaborative effort is designed to increase awareness of ethanol and flexible fuel vehicles, and to promote the increased use of E85 as a renewable, alternative transportation fuel that is able to meet the demands of today’s drivers.
“ Michigan’s $60.1 billion agriculture industry is on its way to creating a strong presence in the ethanol market,” said Mitch Irwin, director of the Michigan Department of Agriculture. “We’re excited to work with GM to promote the benefits of E85 vehicles across the state, and appreciate their support of cleaner-burning fuels like ethanol, which help reduce emissions, increase energy independence and support our agriculture industry.”
E85 FlexFuel vehicles can run on any combination of gasoline and/or E85, a fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. E85 can contribute to energy independence because it diversifies the source of transportation fuels beyond petroleum, and it provides positive environmental benefits in the form of reduced greenhouse gas emissions.
Research has shown that many owners of flex-fuel vehicles do not know that their vehicles are capable of using E85. In January, GM announced a sweeping consumer education and advertising campaign aimed at promoting the benefits of E85 and GM’s flexible fuel vehicle leadership, and encouraging consumers to actively promote E85 in their communities. “Live Green Go Yellow” ads continue throughout the year with print, web (livegreengoyellow.com) and broadcast media components.
With 1.5 million flexible-fuel vehicles already on the road, GM is a leader in flexible-fuel vehicle production and sales. For the 2006 model year, GM offers nine E85 flexible fuel vehicles, including the Chevrolet Tahoe, GMC Yukon, Chevrolet Suburban, GMC Yukon XL, Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra, Chevrolet Avalanche, Chevrolet Impala, and the Chevrolet Monte Carlo. GM also plans to add more than 400,000 E85-capable vehicles to the fleet in 2006. At the same time, worldwide production of ethanol is increasing every year, and is expected to triple by 2020.
About GM:
General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world’s largest automaker, has been the global industry sales leader for 75 years. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 327,000 people around the world. With global headquarters in Detroit, GM manufactures its cars and trucks in 33 countries . In 2005, 9.17 million GM cars and trucks were sold globally under the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com.
About CleanFUEL USA:
Founded in 1993, CleanFUEL USA is based in Georgetown, Texas and is recognized as the leading global manufacturer of certified and approved alternative fuel dispensing equipment for both propane and E85. CleanFUEL USA provides comprehensive alternative motor fuel programs for fleet managers throughout the world.
About Meijer, Inc.:
Based in Walker, Mich., Meijer is a family-owned and operated company operating supercenters throughout the Midwest. Meijer operates more than 170 stores in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Kentucky. For more information, visit www.meijer.com.
That is the big "gotcha". It is currently subsidized. The actual production costs for E-85 from corn and sorghum (per unit of energy) is easily triple that of petroleum gasoline. This is a re-hash of the "gasahol" crap from the early eighties. Just another additive (like MTBE and the detergents like phosphorous). Engine technology is much better today, but E-85 is much less efficient than gasoline. I do not remember the exact percentage, but 87% comes to mind. I will google it.
The government has spent millions, and made a lot of papers and books. These were about the most objective discussions, and it is still far from settled or agreed upon. "One of the biggest critics of fuel ethanol is David Pimentel, Cornell University. He asserts that it takes about 70% more energy to grow corn and make ethanol from it than what goes into the ethanol. Among other things, however, his analysis is based on old data and does not give any credit for the energy value of the animal feed co-product of making ethanol. On August 23, 2005, the National Corn Growers Association hosted The Debate on the Net Energy Balance of Ethanol, which directly addresses and refutes Pimentel's claims."
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/eth_energy_bal.html
"In late 1999 an early 2000, USDA surveyed 28 ethanol plants, both wet and dry mills, to estimate their 1998 costs of production (net corn costs and cash variable costs). These plants processed more than 400 million bushels of corn and sorghum in 1998 to produce more than 1.1 billion gallons of ethanol. The average variable cost of production of ethanol weighted by industry sector was 93.9 cents per gallon. The net feedstock cost averaged about 53 cents per gallon for dry mills and 48 cents per gallon for wet mills."
http://www.usda.gov/oce/reports/energy/index.htm
Lower mileage is merely a cost function.. if price difference is enough, lower gas mileage is acceptable.
$2 a gallon v $3 a gallon means I can get a 1/3 fewer miles to the gallon without paying any penalty other than needing to fill up more often.
Ethanol is not as energy dense as gasoline, so they will get lower mileage.
However as gasoline prices continue to rise ethanol based fuel becomes a more realistic option.
At this point private industry hasn't invested highly in producing large quantities of ethanol efficiently because it's a risky proposition.
If gas prices go back down, or the public loses interest, or environmentalists decide to oppose using land to grow crops for this, it could end up unprofitable.
However, if gasoline prices remain high or continue to rise and the public sees ethanol based fuels as a good thing, this could be very profitable, but it requires doing it on a large scale to be really cost effective.
I think that creating these flex fuel vehicles is a great idea because it gives consumers the option to use fuel that is up to 85% ethanol. If enough of these cars exist, producing ethanol based fuels on a large scale can become a viable option.
It seems very unlikely that E85 is going to become the right choice for everyone, but I like having an option that decreases our reliance on foreign countries, especially considering how many of those countries are using the wealth they gain from oil.
Unfortunately, ethanol's (unsubsidized) cost is much higher than that of gasoline. For example, the spot price for gasoline on 4/11/2006 ranged from $1.8597 in Rotterdam to $2.295 in Los Angeles (no new U.S gasoline refineries since 1975). Wholesale ethanol ranges from $2.49 to $2.52. When you allow for a $.54 subsidy for ethanol, its cost is $3.03 to $3.06.
Let's take U.S. averages on these: Gasoline (E10) - $2.22 - 25 mpg - cost per mile $ .0888 Ethanol (E85) - $3.04 - 19 mpg - cost per mile $ .16 So on an unsubsidized basis, E85 is 80% more expensive than E10.
The E85 trashers don't fundamentally understand market economics.
TODAY, oil is a mature product with very little opportunity for reducing or controlling costs, and E85 is not as competitive.
TOMORROW, however, oil will still be a mature product, but E85 will provide Americans a more guaranteed source of energy, will develop and mature with market ingenuity, AND WILL DEFUND AN ENEMY SWORN TO YOUR DEATH.
E-85 is a real bargain now but once there is a demand for it, I would bet the price will be right up there with regular. Sure wouldn't want the oil companys to take a beating on it.
Here's a station locator.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/infrastructure/locator.html
http://afdcmap.nrel.gov/locator/LocatePane.asp
sounds good to me I'm willing to pay for that
Not if one considers the inherent inefficiencies of ethanol. Unsubsidized ethanol only becomes attractive (today) when gasoline costs, net of taxes, exceed $5.00 per gallon. The big drawbacks for ethanol are distribution and lack of refining (fermenting) capacity. If we could get a judge Green to force the oil and refining companies to give away their facilities at cost, we might be on to something. I do not see that happening in the short term.
>>>Now, some may argue: Brazil? they must not have that many folks living there - Actually, they have approx 185 Million folks living there.
It is not that they don't have a lot of people, it is that so many of them cannot afford cars:
Brazil GDP Per Capita (PPP) $8,400 (2005 est.)
USA GDP PER Capita (PPP) $42,000 (2005 est.)
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/br.html
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.