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Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be
The Jewish World Review ^ | 4/31/2006 | Tony Snow

Posted on 03/31/2006 12:13:03 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

~~~~snip~~~~

Economist Larry Kudlow praises Hispanic entrepreneurship: "According to 2002 Census Bureau data, Hispanics are opening businesses at a rate three times faster than the national average. In addition, there were almost 1.6 million Hispanic-owned businesses generating $222 billion in revenue in 2002."

~~~~snip~~~~

Total crime and property crime in California are half what they were in 1980; violent crime has fallen more than a third. The state's Hispanic population during that time has increased 120 percent.

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; blindeyeontheborder; borderlist; bordersecurity; bushamnesty; illegalaliens; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; mexicancrimewave; openborderopenwound; treason; voteforluis
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To: DoughtyOne; Luis Gonzales
More enabling appologistic nonsense from a person that thinks it's okay to have illegal aliens murdering, raping, robing, assulting and committing gang activity on U.S. soil.....

.....Why do you front for illegal aliens Luis? Why do you like them to murder et al on our soil?

Hittin' the bars early, huh?

That's giving you the benefit of the doubt. If your disingenuous, strawman-filled outburst is not alcohol-driven, then you have no excuse.

Your post won't be answered and doesn't deserve an answer.

381 posted on 03/31/2006 4:09:58 PM PST by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: HiJinx; Texas_Jarhead; Luis Gonzales
The only way this can be true is if the '10%' figure equals the proportion of illegal immigrants in the study that have school-aged children.

Fix-the-math bump.

The Texas school system has been groaning under a mass of Mexican children for 20 years.....the old schools built for the Boomers are bulging again, and the Houston school system is having both to consolidate schools in order to abandon decrepit buildings from the 50's and build new schools. (And of course, they've just HAD to build themselves a big new administrative complex at the same time! -- but that's another issue.)

My friends in suburban Atlanta tell me the same story -- kids who shouldn't be here, swinging from the rafters and jamming both the schools and hospital ER waiting rooms.

382 posted on 03/31/2006 4:10:08 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: ARealMothersSonForever

In 1996, 22 percent of immigrant-headed households used at least one major welfare program, compared to 15 percent of native households. After declining in the late 1990s, welfare use rebounded, with 23 percent of immigrant households using welfare compared to 15 percent of native
households in 2001.

* The persistently high rate of welfare use by immigrant households stems from their heavy reliance on Medicaid, which has actually risen modestly.



* Welfare use remains high over time; immigrants in the country for more than 20 years still use the welfare system at significantly higher rates than natives.



In 2001, almost 80 percent of immigrant households using welfare had at least one person working.



http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back503.html .


383 posted on 03/31/2006 4:11:23 PM PST by kcvl
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To: kesg
Do you own a business?

Do you meet a payroll you wish were smaller?

Do you employ illegal aliens?

384 posted on 03/31/2006 4:11:39 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

Ever hear of the book "How to Lie with Statistics?"


385 posted on 03/31/2006 4:11:59 PM PST by RepublicanHippy
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To: HKMk23

Pleae read post 85 where the italics are properly placed. It was said but not by me


386 posted on 03/31/2006 4:13:51 PM PST by tertiary01 (Why are those who say a fence is not the answer most likely to live behind high walls)
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To: rcocean
Snow is wet RINO on immigration. According to Snow anyone who wants to enforce the immigration law is a "KNOW-NOTHING". Way to pull the Republicans together, Tony!

Just another white house shill, incapable of any sort of independent thought.
387 posted on 03/31/2006 4:15:18 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
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To: gogeo
Well, no. You said "Know nothings believed that immigration was a danger to the US."

I responded to that comment, and you changed the subject completely: "I've seen no person on this thread say that we should have no immigration, period"

This seems very clear cut to me. You are accusing anti-illegal immigrant posters with being anti-immigrant. You cannot acknowledge that because it would reveal your position to be bogus, a straw man.

Hmmm.... your first two statements have barely a nodding acquaintance with each other, and there is simply no logical relationship whatever between those two statements, my comment, and your subsequent confused notion that I'm accusing anybody of anything.

Perhaps after a deep breath you'll calm down enough to recognize this as simply a matter of batting about the idea of whether Tony Snow's throw-away use of the term has any points of contact with the historical positions of the "Know Nothings." It appears that there are some points of contact -- which is a) probably why Mr. Snow used the term in the first place; and b) probably why you're so upset about it.

Neither I nor Mr. Snow would ever claim that you're just like the Know Nothings of the 1850s, because we understand that one never wants to take such comparisons too far. So I'm not going to worry about trying to force an exacting definition on it -- it was a throw-away phrase. If you choose to hyperventilate about it, that's your problem, not mine.

388 posted on 03/31/2006 4:15:33 PM PST by r9etb
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To: gogeo
"Besides, with all due respect, what's it to you? What has any of them ever done to you personally? For example, have any of these people actually committed a crime against you?"

That's a spectacularly pathetic framework for weighing public policy issues.

Okay, you answered my question. Nothing. And that's what I thought you would say.

Incidentally, I disagree with what you think about my question. Indeed, if people asked "what's it to you" more often, they would be amazed how often they would have to answer "nothing." This is especially effective when dealing with liberals. But it works with all people who obsess about what others do even when it doesn't have any adverse impact whatsoever on their personal life.

389 posted on 03/31/2006 4:16:39 PM PST by kesg
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To: mthom
Youre assuming there is some kind of enforcement. History tells us that that is less than likely.

So are you -- and thus your argument is self-defeating.

390 posted on 03/31/2006 4:17:23 PM PST by r9etb
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To: hershey
One third of illegals are on welfare.

Or one sixth of them. Or one ninth. More or less. The numerator is presumably known fairly well. The denominator, however, depends on whose bogus estimates you choose to believe for the number of illegals in the US. On this very thread, we've seen estimates of 10 million, 20+ million, and "over 30 million".

391 posted on 03/31/2006 4:20:17 PM PST by r9etb
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To: george wythe
Payroll taxes are not dependent on dependents.

I believe you can decrease your withholding by increasing the number of dependents claimed on your W-4.

392 posted on 03/31/2006 4:22:25 PM PST by FoxInSocks
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To: r9etb
Self defeating? More like realistic. The 86 amnesty was supposed to be the last time and was to be followed by stringent enforcement. Didnt happen. You can go on trusting if you want but I believe even if you assume honest intentions eventually entropy has its way. Which is why I support a border fence.
393 posted on 03/31/2006 4:23:14 PM PST by mthom
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To: abigailsmybaby
Another FReeper posted these felonies and asked if any have been repealed. I don't know. Do you?

I'm not sure, but I think you posted to the proposed House version of the current immigration bill. I compared it to the actual version of 8 USC Sec. 1324 at www.findlaw.com. They don't match.

394 posted on 03/31/2006 4:26:05 PM PST by kesg
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To: inquest
Funny the Israelis don't consider their fence to be all that worthless, and it's not even completed. It's reduced Palestinian incursions from the West Bank tremendously.

It's also a tiny fraction of the length of the one that would be required for the US border -- and which would not cover either the Gulf or Pacific coast beaches. Other than that they're both "fences," it's rather difficult to compare the two: the difference in scale is too great.

395 posted on 03/31/2006 4:26:31 PM PST by r9etb
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Let's be honest with what's going on here. This is a replay of the Dubai port deal situation over again.

In that situation, the American people spoke with one voice and said, "We do not think it wise to engage in transactions that would give Muslims (in the broadest sense) greater access to our infrastructure." The business lobby responded by saying, "What? You don't want to do busines with Arabs? [notice the subtle word substitution here] You're a bunch of racists!"

The same thing is going on here. The American people have said, "No illegal aliens, no guest workers, no amnesty programs." The McCain/Kennedy/Bush axis of evil is responding by saying, "immigrants [again, notice the subtle word substitution going on here] have been a part of our history, you bunch of xenophobes!"

It didn't work two months ago, and despite the use of talk radio as a bully pulpit by the likes of Tony Snow to get the people "back in line", it's not going to work now.
396 posted on 03/31/2006 4:28:14 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
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To: Rick_Michael

My friend's cousin was raped by an illegal alien, and committed suicide shortly there after.

My friend's cousins uncle was stabbed by an illegal alien.

I have also heard of people who were raped or stabbed by people who were not illegal aliens. Imagine that!

397 posted on 03/31/2006 4:33:22 PM PST by kesg
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To: kesg
Maybe so. I believe that the world is a much better place because of any number of people who fixed a problem that had nothing to do with them. I have no children in public schools, but I recognize how important they are. If they ultimately fail, it will be after I'm gone, no skin off my nose. I'm not poor, but I pay taxes to help those who are. I'm not old, but I volunteer for the Community Center. I give blood, but I have O negative; I should logically bank my own blood for my own use, or find another O negative person or two. I'll donate more than I ever use myself.

I had a chat with someone on a police brutality thread. I drive a nice car, I'm home by 9:00, I know the local chief of police. I have no fear of being on the wrong side of a wayward cop. There's no logical reason, therefore, for me to advocate for effective regulation of police activity, but I do.

A lot of life is more pleasant than it would otherwise be because anonymous people did something that had nothing to do with them.

Sometimes minding your own business is a virtue. Sometimes it's not.

398 posted on 03/31/2006 4:34:51 PM PST by gogeo (The /sarc tag is a form of training wheels for those unable to discern intellectual subtlety.)
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To: rcocean

Well, that's a very real prospect. Then again it may be a carefully run process where other results could be obtained by crafting the study differenty. I don't trust these things, and when someone starts quoting them I lose respect for the commentary.


399 posted on 03/31/2006 4:36:46 PM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: mthom; kesg
So you're for an open border. ...

I would prefer an open boarder to a system where some low level government official decided who was worthy enough to become an American. If we don't recognize the illegals who are here and give them a way to participate we will end up with the same internal struggles the French already have brought on themselves with their xenophobic policies. mthom, do you want to wake up one day and find that we have morphed into France?
400 posted on 03/31/2006 4:37:09 PM PST by sefarkas (Why vote Democrat Lite?)
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