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This has bothered me for a long time.
1 posted on 02/02/2006 6:14:20 AM PST by television is just wrong
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To: television is just wrong

Well, the fourth amendment tells you what the government cannot do to you. Costco, Walmart, Home Depot, etc, are not the government. After all, you have a choice. Knowing they do this, you can chose not to patronize their store if you disagree with their policies.


2 posted on 02/02/2006 6:17:15 AM PST by wizardoz
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To: television is just wrong

It's only illegal if a government law enforcement person does it. The store can do what it wishes with regard to such things.


3 posted on 02/02/2006 6:17:27 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: television is just wrong

"Do I have a right to refuse to let them look at what are now my belongings???"

I'm sure you do. They are betting correctly that honest people won't want the huge hassle that would follow.


4 posted on 02/02/2006 6:18:19 AM PST by gondramB (Democracy: two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch. Liberty: a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: television is just wrong
I haven't been a Sam's Club member for several years. But when I was they looked through your stuff as you were leaving the store.

Serves two purposes: First, they may find you have stuff you didn't pay for. Second, knowing this will happen may deter you from stealing stuff.

Is it legal? Dunno. Prolly is as I doubt they'd do it and risk getting sued.

5 posted on 02/02/2006 6:21:36 AM PST by upchuck (Article posts of just one or two sentences do not preserve the quality of FR. Lazy FReepers be gone!)
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To: television is just wrong


Doesn't bother me.

I look at it this way, if they can cut down on theft, they can pass on the savings to me in lower prices. I read somewhere that 10% of the price of an item is to make up for theft, and the majority of that theft is by employees.

At Sams Club, all they do is count the number of items and check it against the receipt. That isn't like a strip search.


8 posted on 02/02/2006 6:21:52 AM PST by Lokibob (Spelling and typos are copyrighted. Please do not use.)
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To: television is just wrong
Ask a lawyer

But my non-professional opinion is.

If you don't want them to look through your stuff, refuse. They have no more right to look through your bag or your purse than I do.

If you refuse, they will call the police and you will be in for a big hassle. But you will have preserved your rights.
9 posted on 02/02/2006 6:22:48 AM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: television is just wrong
"Her position is called 'loss prevention'"

Would you prefer the store raise the price you pay for their goods to cover the cost of goods stolen by others?

That's the alternative.

10 posted on 02/02/2006 6:23:50 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: television is just wrong

I purchased something at a Circuit City, at a time when there were very few customers in the store--as I checked thru the cashier, I noticed that the security guy stationed at the door (15 feet away) was observing the transaction from a vantage point like front-row-center. My purchase was one small item (a stick of RAM) and I paid cash---security guy heard every word between the cashier and me, which was pleasant and normal in every way. When I went from the checkout to the door, the bag and receipt were searched, for what or what reason I cannot imagine. I haven't been to Circuit City since, and will not in this lifetime!


16 posted on 02/02/2006 6:29:36 AM PST by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: television is just wrong

Private enterprise. They get to make the rules about what occurs on their property.

I hate it too, but they are within their rights to do this.


19 posted on 02/02/2006 6:32:28 AM PST by sauropod ("Here Lies Joe Biden, Buried Under His Own Words.")
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To: television is just wrong
I suspect you have the right to refuse. And I also suspect they have the right to refuse to allow you to leave the store with the bag if you do. However, it isn't like they can just keep the merchandise you paid for; they'd have to give you a refund. And they can't detain you unless they have probable cause, and I doubt that refusal to allow them to search your bag is in itself probable cause.

If you're the kind that likes confrontation, it might be worth a shot. Refuse, and see what they do when the ball is in their court.

20 posted on 02/02/2006 6:33:16 AM PST by IronJack
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To: television is just wrong
The fourth amendment states:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
So the first issue to clear up is the difference between "unreasonable search and seizure" and "illegal search and seizure". The bill of rights constrains what the government, not what private enterprises, can do. So, a search and seizure by a private enterprise would not typically be considered a fourth amendment issue in the first place. Even so, the question would be "was the search and seizure unreasonable?"

In the example you cite, you are on someone else's property and the owner of that property can certainly be considered to have a reasonable right to ensure that you are not removing something from the property without authorization. Therefore, regardless of whether you liked the experience or not, this was not even an unreasonable search and seizure, much less an "illegal" one.

21 posted on 02/02/2006 6:33:30 AM PST by VRWCmember
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To: television is just wrong

Don't shop there anymore.


25 posted on 02/02/2006 6:35:08 AM PST by shekkian
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To: television is just wrong

The thing that pisses me off is when you buy something and they forget or don't turn off those little sensors on your items that sets off the alarm at the door. Happened to me like 3 times in a row at walmart. Of course you have to stand there and wait while someone comes over and searches through your bag. The fourth time it happened I just kept walking and said if you want to look in the bag you better start walking, I'm in a hurry. she just waved me on.


26 posted on 02/02/2006 6:37:07 AM PST by Xenophobic Alien (At a higher altitude with flag unfurled We reached the dizzy heights of that dreamed of world)
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To: television is just wrong

You have the right to shop somewhere else. You are not in your home, but on someone else's property. They're perfectly within their rights.


29 posted on 02/02/2006 6:38:19 AM PST by Real Cynic No More (A member of the Appalachian-American minority -- and proud of it!)
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To: television is just wrong
Here is a nice story to read about someone else's experiences at a worst buy: http://www.marklyon.org/wordpress/index.php?p=166
32 posted on 02/02/2006 6:43:21 AM PST by NonValueAdded (What ever happened to "Politics stops at the water's edge?")
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To: television is just wrong

Excellent question. As long as I are still on the premises of the store, I personally have no problem allowing an employee of that store to make sure that my purchases match the reciept that I was just handed. That procedure helps heep the cost of the stuff I buy down, by reducing the amount of goods that are shoplifted, not to mention errors and ommissions by the checkout clerk.

It would be a different matter if a store employee wanted to frisk me or look through my wife's handbag. Only a duly sworn Law Enforcement Officer has the authority to do that, and only for reasonable suspicion.


38 posted on 02/02/2006 6:52:35 AM PST by Bean Counter ("Stout Hearts!")
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To: television is just wrong

This surely isn't Waco, where the government went wrong.


48 posted on 02/02/2006 7:12:22 AM PST by Sybeck1
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To: television is just wrong
Some of the responses on this thread are frightening. And people wonder why we need lawyers. Here's the deal:
Your state probably (you need to check) has what is commonly called a "shopkeeper's privilege" (you should google the term if you're curious) statute, which allows employees of an establishment to ascertain if you are leaving their store without paying for their merchandise, and even allows them to detain you for a reasonable amount of time if they have a reasonable belief that you have not.
51 posted on 02/02/2006 7:24:32 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: television is just wrong
You are protected from government searches. If the Kmart employee is a government officer, then he or she would have to get a warrant to search you.

At the Kmart level, you could refuse the search. They would then call the police, who would have to get a warrant to search you. So yes, you can refuse the search. This is only the situation if the Constitution was followed.

In reality, the real cops would come and search you without a warrant. If you refused, they would arrest you. They would say you had no "reasonable expectation of privacy" because some judge somewhere invented that term so cops he liked could search for drugs without a warrant. Thanks, WOD.
61 posted on 02/02/2006 8:02:28 AM PST by mysterio
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To: television is just wrong

Most of the loss goes out the employee exit not the front door.

70 posted on 02/02/2006 8:36:14 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Trust in YHvH forever, for the LORD, YHvH is the Rock eternal. (Isaiah 26:4))
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