It fits my hand nicely too. I use Federal Hydrashock 230 grain +P HST.
Posted on 02/01/2006 3:42:08 PM PST by John Jorsett
Why do American troops prefer the century old .45 caliber pistol to lighter 9mm models. It’s all about “stopping power.” As far back as 1900, during the fighting against Moslem rebels in the Philippines, there had been complaints of enemy fighters getting shot and continuing to attack. From this experience, the then standard army pistol, a .38 caliber (9.65mm) weapon, was replaced by a .45 caliber (11.4mm) one. In the 1980s, the .45 was in turn replaced by a 9mm pistol. There were a lot of complaints about that, but 90 years of experience demonstrated that you should not depend on a pistol in the heat of combat. But that was largely European experience, in major wars. In these conditions, pistols were rarely used in desperate battles. The fighting in Iraq reminded everyone that, especially in urban combat, a pistol was still an essential weapon. Going into buildings, troops would often prefer to have one or two guys holding pistols, as these could get into action faster if you were in cramped and crowded conditions. At close range, you didn’t want someone with a gun, or a knife, to require a second shot. And at ranges measured in a few feet, you couldn’t miss. If the enemy was amped up, you wanted to take him down with one shot, because there might not be time for a second. Many police SWAT teams have stayed with the .45 for the same reason.
The M1911 was better at stopping people, and that was mainly due to the size of the bullet. Technically, the “hitting power” of a bullet is determined by the bullet weight and velocity, and is measured in joules. The widely used 9mm Parabellum generated 583 joules, the Russian 7.62mm Tokarev (mainly used to execute cowardly soldiers, POWs or uncooperative civilians) produced 499 joules, while the .45 (11.4mm) only came up with 450 joules. But there's a major problem in just using joules, and that is how much of that energy is actually applied to the person being hit. A smaller, faster bullet has a tendency to just go through someone. This does damage, often fatal damage, but if often does not slow down a highly energized soldier. A larger bullet, especially a blunt one, will be more effective at "stopping" someone. Thus the popularity of the .45 caliber pistol round. Although it has less energy than the 9mm round (450 joules compared to 583), those who have used both insist that the .45 is far more effective than the smaller and faster 9mm. Part of this has to do with the fact that the .45 (11.4mm) bullet hits with a 60 percent larger (as seen head on) area, thus it applied more of that energy to the target. This explains the greater likelihood of the .45 caliber bullet "knocking down" whoever it hits. The same physics applies to rifle bullets (although they tend to have pointy tips, unlike the blunter ones for pistol pullets.) A 7.62mm bullet is 88 percent larger (head on) than a 5.56mm one.
Even before the Department of Defense decided to switch back to the .45, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the U.S. Marine Corps went and got .45 caliber pistols for use as an “alternative” to the standard 9mm M9. SOCOM was never happy with the 9mm's pistol's stopping power, even in the very limited scenarios, such as terrorist hostage rescue, where they can legally use 9mm hollow-point ammunition for increased effectiveness. SOCOM went out and developed the HK Mark23 Mod 0 SOCOM "offensive" handgun weapons system. This weapon, based on a popular H&K design, is 1.53 inches wide, 5.9 inches high and 9.65 inches long. It weighs 2.42 pounds empty and uses ten or twelve round magazines. The original M1911 is 8.25 inches long, 5.25 inches high, 1.5 inches wide and weighs 2.44 pounds empty (add .4 pounds for a loaded, seven round, magazine). Some 2.7 million M1911s have been manufactured so far, 1.9 million of them during World War II. Some 650,000 of the new U.S. .45 caliber pistols are expected to be manufactured initially.
The U.S. Marine Corps have been using M1911s rebuilt from the many old ones turned in when everyone switched to the M9. But this supply is running out, and the marines have been eager to see the 9mm M9 pistol replaced with a new .45 caliber model. Some marines (and other troops) buy these newer .45 caliber weapons with their own money. Most American combat units tolerate troops bringing in some additional weapons, especially pistols. Some troops have been buying 10mm pistols, seeing this as a nice cross between the lighter weight of the M9 (2.55 pounds versus three for the .45) and the greater stopping power of the 11.4mm M1911 bullet. But there are new .45 models that weigh as much as the M9, carry more bullets (10) and are easier to repair than the M1911.
The SOCOM Mk 23 may not be a prime candidate for the new standard pistol. That’s because the Mk 23 is a large weapon. A new “standard .45” will be used by a wide variety of troops, including women (who have smaller hands.) It is possible to make smaller .45s. One of the smallest currently available is the Glock Model 37. This .45 caliber pistol is 7.32 inches long, 5.51 inches high and 1.18 inches wide. It’s 1.63 pounds empty, and 2.22 pounds with a ten round magazine. Glock began making .45 caliber pistols in the early 1990s, and has steadily improved that design. There are smaller .45s than these Glocks, but none that are as sturdy and reliable. So it is possible to get a smaller .45 design that will be as robust as the original M1911.
Darn. Post #3 was directed to you. Just noticed, looking for something else I wrote. :-/
Dang, you're right. I guess everyone ignored the incorrect metric equivalent, and just read right past it.
The only reason to use a handgun in combat is to fight your way to an available rifle.
It's dark inside the Iraqi building. No power. The firefight is raging. Ammo is running low and the tight quarters often require use of a handgun. The squad is pinned down in one tiny corner, waiting for the back up to arrive and this little exchange takes place among the squad members:
Awww crap! I musta dropped my mags in the corridor! Anybody got a spare for an H&K USP?
Not me! I've got a ParaOrdnance.
Not me! I've got a 1911!
Not me! I've got a Beretta 8045
Not me! I've got a Sig P220.
Get the picture?
I very much doubt it would go like this: We told you not to get that damn Kraut gun! We've all got Colts and now you're stuck! Based on the overriding perception of the troops that if the army issues it you can do better in the private sector.
It was the rebel yell !!
What did the tunnel rats use? Is that the right term? The guys who had brass balls and went into the tunnels...
Boy! I'd like to see those jigglies jiggle when firing off that drum......
Yep.
My daughter has been shooting my Glock 27 since she was eleven.
She never complained about recoil.
Love my Gold Cup!
I have a GLOCK 30 (great, great gun), but mine is the standard black. Where’d you get the brown part?
It fits my hand nicely too. I use Federal Hydrashock 230 grain +P HST.
I noticed the error but wasn't sure exactly how close to 9mm a .357 diameter bullet was. Turns out it is 9.067mm. He may have meant to say 9.065mm and left out a zero.
Had a colt delta -elite in 10mm. at time it was supposed be hot new gun. what a piece of junk. I now love my SW #29 44mag,topped w/3x burris scope.
The grips on that puppy are awesome 2.5 !~
Carbon fiber ?
Thank the good lord that they brought this old workhorse back. Now if they will just bring back the BAR or a good replacement for it, I would be even happier. Large caliber heavy hitting rounds make a hell of alot more sense than these "metrosexual bullets" we seem to issue our troops these days.
Good catch.....Eaker should have caught that error while I was at work !.........:o)
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