Question for Pro-Lifers (What Would you do in this case ?)

Amen

None of us can possibly address "the most moral" thing to do!!!!

Some options are objectively immoral. A concerned friend would point this out.

[It's good to know that Germans learned a lesson from history. There are a few Americans who need to learn that lesson.]

Germany's Nazi past procludes them from going along with every other European country (except Poland, Ireland and the UK) in making abortion on demand legal.

The Nazis were very pro-abortion.

This is from Precious-Life.com:

When the Nazis came to power in 1933 one of the first acts Hitler did was to legalize abortion. By 1935 Germany with 65 million people was the place where over 500,000 abortions were being performed each year. Although Hitler and his government encouraged Aryan women to produce a lot of children, he left the matter of abortion and all its facets in the hands of a decidely pro- abortion medical establishment. Even in the midst of Nazi propaganda aimed at increasing the Aryan population, scores of Aryan women still chose to abort their unborn children. The medical publication Deutsches Aerzleblatt reported the abortions in Germany each year reached a half-million.

Further, a Nazi decree of October 19, 1941 established abortion on demand as the official policy of Poland. Hitler, however, expressed dissatisfaction with this policy. Abortion, he believed, should NOT be limited to Poland. He therefore ordered that abortion be expanded to all populations under the control of the "Ministry of the Occupied Territories of the East."

On July 22, 1942, the Fuhrer exhibited a highly positive attitude towards abortion as an indispensable method of dealing with the non-German populations in countries under Nazi control. "In view of the large families of the native populations," he asserted, "it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible." Hitler also personally announced that he "would personally shoot" any "such idiot" who "tried to put into practice such an order (forbidding abortion) in the occupied Eastern territories.

Despite contemporary attempts to characterize Hitler as opposed to abortion, the historical evidence clearly and overwhelmingly supports only one possible conclusion: Hitler and his regime were adamantly pro-abortion. To depict Hitler as anti-abortion is a ludicrous as calling him anti-genocide or pro- Jewish. Both Hitler and his government had little regard for human life perceived as subpar, whether born or preborn.

"Questions

1. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why didn't he demand that Germany's strong law protective of human life before birth (enacted in 1871) be retained?

2. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he leave the matter of abortion in the hands of the most vociferous pro-abortion physicians and medical organizations in Germany?

3. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he permit the establishment of guidelines and procedures for legal abortion in close conformity to those developed by the Berlin Chamber of Physicians, a prominent advocate of permisssive abortion under the guise of health?

4. If the Nazi government had such restrictive laws on abortion, why were there at least half-a-million abortions performed annually in Germany?

5. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he say that 'in view of the large families of native population it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible'?

6. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he order that abortion on demand be instituted as the prevailing policy for all countries under Nazi domination?

7. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he threaten to shoot anyone who attempted to forbid abortions in Nazi occupied areas?

8. If the Nazi government was opposed to abortion, why did it issue an endless series of decrees legalizing the destruction of the unborn throughout the Eastern territories?" At risk of stating the obvious, some (perhaps, many) of the aborted were Jewish.

Take the advice Moses gave "Choose Life"

Absolutley right.

Glad to carry out the wishes & Commands/Commandments of My FATHER.

And very proud of you as a FReeper too.

IF the child is breathing + heart beating without a machine to make it happen, then there is at least some brain. The "no brain" terminology would be lefty-murderer talk for "just kill'em already".

But the answer - I personally feel the parents made the right choice. EVERY child conceived deserves at least the CHANCE at life. As grave as this baby's prognosis is, his/her life likely won't be long on this earth, but at least the child was given a CHANCE.

The way to handle it now is to pray and pray hard - for the families. Prayer for guidance, and prayer for relief from all pressures from the outside - that God's will be done and made clear.

Every baby is a little miracle.

do give = DO NOT GIVE

I am going to list the responses that have been given that I felt would the most helpful, with the suggestion that if you choose to give 'advise' you might consider first, asking if it's alright to do so. If it is, print out what you feel is appropriate, as a friend, and allow them the dignity of reading what you think in private.

My choice in responses come from the experience of losing my first child 23 years ago. There is also a beautiful story at the last link.

God bless you all.
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Love and care for this child until the day it stops breathing... Doctors and nurses will tell you stupid things like don't be attached, don't take them home... Don't believe it. For whatever reason this child exists, and is no less deserving of a parents love than anyone else.

God has a reason and plan for all of us, we all serve a purpose even if we cannot understand what that is. Do their best to care for this child, provide it all the caring and comfort that they can, and when sadly the day comes when it does no longer breath... bury it with full respect and thank God for letting you be part of its life.

It won't be easy, it may not seem fair, but it is the only moral path to follow, anything less would be dispicable.
30 posted on 01/25/2006 3:40:07 PM EST by HamiltonJay
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Their whole lives lasted just one day, and I told her that they will always be a reminder that each single day we have is special.
35 posted on 01/25/2006 3:42:57 PM EST by TravisBickle
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Pray for wisdom;
- love without reservation--both the child and each other;
- receive with gratitude the love and support of family and friends;
- look for the signs that this child's brief life has had purpose and meaning which many who live to advanced age may not accomplish in their long lifetimes;
- and, finally, look forward to that certain day when you will reunite with the soul housed within that incomplete little human body.
40 posted on 01/25/2006 3:45:04 PM EST by loveliberty2
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Prayers are being lifted for wisdom and clarity for this couple.

My younger sister and her husband had two (three-month) premature twin baby boys. They were on life-support systems for almost two months. They did everything they could for the boys. Our family spent everyday with the boys until that time. In the end God took these children home.

I'm not certain of the answer to your question; however, I lift up your request to the One who does.
43 posted on 01/25/2006 3:45:12 PM EST by jer33 3
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I'd buy the baby a beautiful crocheted outfit and give it to the parents. Just that simple. A welcoming gift for a child that may not stay long..........
44 posted on 01/25/2006 3:45:25 PM EST by libertylass
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Tell them to do everything possible to stimulate the baby. Our great-grandson was born "without a brain". They said he would not live. He lived. They said he would be blind. He sees. They said he would be deaf. He hears. They said he would have no cognitive function. He laughs, he cries, he responds to and recognizes his family. He is growing and he is loved and cherished. He grew the right side of his brain. Then he grew most of his left brain.
Pray. We do not know what God can do. Miracles do happen. May God bless this family and give them a miracle.
61 posted on 01/25/2006 3:54:36 PM EST by WVNan
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A short time to love and hold ones baby and a very trying time. May God bless them all.
I relate this story only to buttress the decision your friends made. My daughter was advised to selectively reduce one of her babies when she was carrying triplets because the Ob/Gyn said that one of the babies was "underformed" and it could adversely affect the other two. The Ob/GYN was fired in no uncertain terms and my granddaughter was the first born and is just as healthy and smart as her two 'younger' brothers.
66 posted on 01/25/2006 4:00:06 PM EST by jwalsh07
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What would I do? I would enjoy and relish every moment I had with my child, no matter how short that time is.
94 posted on 01/25/2006 4:19:37 PM EST by svcw
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Calf Note-A Story about Pepe
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:UWecCDSHSgwJ:www.calfnotes.com/pdffiles/CN079.pdf+five+legged+calf&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

The following, regarding Germany, is taken from Lifeissues.net. It gets it into the finer details of Nazi policy that I was simplistic about above:

We now turn to Nazi abortion policy. As we have seen, there had been agitation throughout the Weimar period to liberalize/legalize abortion. This resulted in a compromise: Liberalization. Abortion remained illegal but was reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor, making the punishment essentially a fine and not a prison sentence.

Hence, in 1933, in their first year of power, the Nazis passed a law forbidding abortion to Germans, increasing the penalties as they had been before Weimar liberalization.(24) The Nazis wanted to increase the birthrate so as to have soldiers for their military. In March 1934, however, the Hereditary Health Court in Hamburg rendered a judgment which stated that abortion on grounds of racial health was not an offense. In its decision, it referred to a Supreme Court decision during the Weimar democracy seven years earlier, allowing the procedure for "medical necessities."(25) In June 1935 the sterilization law was also amended to allow abortions on eugenic grounds and these abortions had to be followed by sterilizations, dependent -- technically -- on the woman's consent.(26) Thus, sterilization, eugenics and abortion all come together.

For the first time in German history, abortion was legal. But one cannot ignore the roots reaching back almost fifteen years to the beginning of the Weimar democracy, during which time arguments had been made that unborn life was not that important so was therefore expendable. Despite the racial theories behind this decision there were some non-Nazis who approved because of the allowing of choice.(27) In 1938 the government announced that Jews could have abortions at any time, since this could only benefit the German people.(28) The Jews, as well as "unfit" Germans, had a "choice" most Germans did not. This meant that the Nazis saw abortion as a very useful weapon against undesirables; e.g. as an act of elimination.

During World War II the Nazis used sterilizations and abortions (also birth control and even the promotion of homosexuality) extensively in eastern Europe to carry out their eugenics policies. The specific aim was to keep eastern females available for slave labor while at the same time weakening eastern nations by hampering the reproduction of Slavic peoples.(29) Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS, a chief architect of the Holocaust, and personal friend of Adolf Hitler, once stated that the tragedy of abortion for German women was that afterwards women often could not have children. Not in the loss of an "individual life," as he put it.(30) The Nazis used the word "parent" to describe pregnant women and the fathers of the unborn(31) and the word "child" to describe the unborn themselves.(32) Nazis forbade abortion in order to preserve German unborn but allowed, even encouraged, the destruction of non-German unborn.(33)

Eugenics is a discredited science today.(34) There is also shock felt and experienced today about tricked and forced sterilizations of the past. Abortion, however, is now legal in most democracies, with the boast from those who believe in its legality that there is "choice" in the matter, that what the Nazis did was wrong because things were forced. We must ask constantly: Choice? Freedom? To do what? Sterilization (forced or voluntary, for eugenic reasons or not) prevents a life from happening. Abortion, on the other hand, takes a life that has already happened because an unborn is the other patient in any pregnancy(35) and is no longer considered by science a mere maternal appendage.(36) The Nazis, experts in killing, knew this.

Fifty years ago, the democracies knew this also. At the one War Crimes Trial involving abortion, the prosecutor, in his summation, called abortion an "inhumane act" and an "act of extermination" and stated that even if a woman's request for abortion was voluntary abortion was still a war crime and a crime against humanity.(37) The men doing the abortions were found guilty at this trial of "encouraging and compelling abortions" and were sentenced to 25 years in prison.(38) Concerning abortion, the United States, a democracy, is doing today what it once condemned Germany for doing.

In looking at the Nazis and abortion, and abortion in general, many:

* Tend to focus on the Nazis taking a choice from women, not on the Nazis considering the procedure a very effective way to kill. The German Supreme Court has made the connection between abortion and killing in two of its decisions [1975, 1993(39)].
* Tend to focus on the issues of church-state, morality vs privacy, not on human rights, the thing that binds us all. Abortion has been called a crime against humanity.
* Tend to focus on themselves, not others. There are two lives involved in every pregnancy.
* Tend to want to be called "centrists," "moderates," "mainstream," not "extremists." Prochoice, not pro-life, is closer to fascism. Remember also that democracies can do horrible things.

The resentments and legitimate grievances Germany had after World War I roughly parallel women's resentments and grievances over a long period of time. Germany was not fully part of the family of nations; women were not fully part of humanity. But just as there was no excuse for Hitler, who made Jews, Slavs and others scapegoats for Germany's problems, there is no excuse for abortion, which makes the unborn scapegoats for women's problems. In both cases, the Nazis after World War I, and modern feminists of the last thirty years, it is as if both were saying, "We have been wronged for so long we cannot do any wrong." Hitler was Germany's doing wrong; abortion is modern feminism's perverting feminism's original message.

That was a very thoughtful post, so I had to check out your profile page. Thank you for your service. I suspect you left something out of your profile. You're a history buff, aren't you? Just a hunch.

Oh...what a sad situation.
If I were in this position, I would give the baby
all of the love and care I possible could, and let
the Lord handle the rest.

My thoughts and prayers are with the family.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR KIND AND THOUGHTFUL RESPONSES. THE SUMMARY GIVEN TO ME BY GERMANBUSINESS WAS MOST HELPFUL.

This is what makes a forum like Free Republic so worthwhile -- people helping other people ( total strangers at that !!). Sharing ideas that make you a better person and strenghtening your moral compass.

You don't get to see this anywhere else.

You are proof that Tocqueville's observation that America is filled with good people still is relevant today.

Again, my thanks.

You're not a troll....bless you for STARTING this thread as more people will now be praying for this precious child of God and her parents!!

I agree with so many posters...pray and BE THERE for the parents.

A concerned friend can butt out while they watch their child die.

They have a pastor to advise them on "objective immorality".

You should provide comfort to the parents who will probably have their baby with them for a precious amount of time. As for the parents, tell them just to love their baby and spend as much time as possible with her.

Here's the final blog post from a year ago from a father who kept a daily log of his baby's too-short life:

William Albert "Will" Kenyon, infant son of Mary and John Kenyon of Iowa City, died Saturday, January 22, 2005, at the University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics from complications of premature birth.

Will was born October 26, 2004 at 24 weeks gestation. He weighed 522 grams at birth, slightly more than one pound. He spent his 12 weeks and four days of life in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit at the Children's Hospital of Iowa under the expert and loving care of a dedicated team of doctors, nurses, and therapists.

Will was a strong fighter, fending off numerous challenges. He liked to hold his hands next to his face and chin. He was most comfortable lying on his tummy. He had a strong grip when offered a finger to hold. A parental hand cupping the top of his head kept him calm and comfortable. Sometimes he tapped his feet as if hearing music in his head. He was soothed listening to a lullaby CD and hearing his parents read stories, especially Goodnight Moon, Two Little Trains, and Jamberry.

In addition to his parents he is survived by his grandparents, Bill and Holly Kenyon of Des Moines, Iowa, and Martin and Maureen Geraghty of Evanston, Ill; great grandparents Jesse and Margaret Askren of Chariton, Iowa, and Mary Regina Ganey of Chicago, Ill.; and numerous aunts, uncles, and cousins. Will was also loved and cherished by hundreds of friends, family and strangers near and far who followed the story of his life as chronicled lovingly each day by his father at willkenyon.blogspot.com.

The family will greet friends from 5:30 to 8 p.m. Wednesday, January 26, at Gay & Ciha Funeral and Cremation Service, 2720 Muscatine Ave. in Iowa City. In lieu of flowers memorial donations may be made in Will's memory to the William A. Kenyon Memorial Fund. The fund will support other babies who face struggles as Will did in his short life.

Will demonstrated each day the value and fragility of life, and we are thankful for every moment we spent with him. Parents hug their children a little harder because of Will. We will hold him in our hearts forever.

[Here are some pictures of the baby with his parents: http://willkenyon.blogspot.com/2004/10/photos.html

[Here is a daily blog written by his father from the day he was born until he died almost three months later: http://willkenyon.blogspot.com/

[You are proof that Tocqueville's observation that America is filled with good people still is relevant today.]

I am in Germany and I am no angel, believe me. I just summarized how the Nazi past has a long shadow here. Abortion ain't going to be legalized anytime soon.

You're welcome I shall keep the situation in my prayers.

If you have no moral advice then that is okay -just say nothing...

Without a brain, the child can't live long anyway. There's no point in continuing this.