Behind engineer 'shortage': Employers are choosy

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ^ | Wednesday, November 16, 2005 | Sharon Begley

[bvw]

Inida is producing hordes of software technicians in its colleges and technical schools. Not so much of a horde in the other specialities such as medicine and civil engineering. Probably so because teaching software has alomost a zero startup cost, and at the time thirty years ago when they began in earnest software was predicted to be a booming market.

So differentials in other specialities less. Supply and demand. India's supply of software people outstrips demand.

[taxcontrol]

YOU SAID "This statement alone doesn't make any sense. I wonder how much YOU know about managing or leading people, in particular, technical people.

1) I'm a technical person myself... In fact, I have invested my own time, effort and money educating myself to be on of the top dozen or so people in my profession in the world. I do not expect my company to take ownership or responsibility for my technical skills.

2) I currently manage a consulting group of 20 people for a Fortune 100 company.

3) I have previously managed technical people in one capacity or another for the past 10 years.... including technical folks for Fortune 500 companies.

4) The industry average turn rate for technical employees is between 10 and 12 percent. My historical rate for employe retention has been between 2 and 4 percent.

My experience shows me, and surveys have proved out, that to RETAIN talented people, it is very necessary to provide an intellectually challenging environment. As such, if I want to KEEP my people, I have to fund their continuing education. I have no problem with that, as long as that education is in areas where the business is going for future growth.

What I do have a problem with is people coming out of colleges with 10 to 15 year old technology, calling themselves engineers, who cant perform even the most basic functions required in order to deliver for the customer. Further, those indiduals expecting their company to hire them at high salaries and then train them up to the basic level of knowledge required.

As to looking to Asia, it simply wont work. The primary reason is that the education that comes out of Asian countries is little different that what comes out of the US schools and is arguably even further behind the current market.

You are correct that business is built around people. But what you FAIL to realize is that in the technical service field, the customer EXPECTS the engineer to deliver right away and NOT spend time learning the products on the customer's nickel. And if you try and put a so called engineer right out of school that does not even understand the current technical directions in the market, or even have the basic skills required, the customer will throw you out the door.

And in a SUCCESSFUL business, it is the CUSTOMER motivations that are most important not the employees. Because without customers, you will not have employees.

[Dat Mon]

YOU SAID..."But what you FAIL to realize is that in the technical service field, the customer EXPECTS the engineer to deliver right away and NOT spend time learning the products on the customer's nickel. And if you try and put a so called engineer right out of school that does not even understand the current technical directions in the market, or even have the basic skills required, the customer will throw you out the door."

Actually, I completely agree with that statement. And this is why in my original post, I reiterated the point, that in order to go in and solve customer problems, requires engineering talent, combined with soid experience, the sort you find in Senior engineers with solid track records. I would never consider a recent colllege grad for consulting work, which is also in part what I do.

What I have found in shorter supply these days, is not only the ability to think logically outside the box and solve real world problems, but the ability to articulate to the customer both the nature of his problem and the solution.

My point was simply that some clients today want to get a solid Senior engineer who can deliver, for the price of a recent green college graduate...it wont work.

Of course, I agree 100% with the requirements to retain good employees, thats the basis of Hertzbergs theory.

[indthkr]

"And if you try and put a so called engineer right out of school .....the customer will throw you out the door."

The Customer deserves respect and service. On the other hand, if you fear your customers, you and your firm are in a very precarious and ultimately untenable position.

[gwb2OO4]

"What I do have a problem with is people coming out of colleges with 10 to 15 year old technology, calling themselves engineers, who cant perform even the most basic functions required in order to deliver for the customer. Further, those indiduals expecting their company to hire them at high salaries and then train them up to the basic level of knowledge required."

Then don't hire them. Offer enough money, and somebody who's up to your standards will come along.

You can't expect to get the most productive workers for a bargain basement price, any more than the least productive workers can expect to earn six-figure salary playing Solitaire all day.

The free market laughs at those who think they can beat it.

[Ciexyz]

The Company (my Dad) worked for was famous for laying off employees just before they could retire.

Hopefully, your Dad made it to retirement. Otherwise, his bosses will probably be standing in line next to my Dad's bosses, on the Highway to Hell.

There's such a thing as capitalism out of control, and those who behave with brutality towards their employees will have to answer to God, who put them in their positions of leadership. God can always remove them from leadership when they abuse their power.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Dianna]

bookmark

[joe fonebone]

well obviously you do not know about the situation here in the peoples democratic republik of michigan........ good engineers are a dime a dozen here, due to the glut of engineers being laid off by the big 3. And, with the firm grip the union has on this state, the guy with a high school diploma can and does make more than the guy with the 4 year degree..............

[HiTech RedNeck]

Maybe not quite as fanciful a question as you'd think. Not every C++ whiz started with C, or could even reliably identify the subset of C++ that is C. "Whaddya mean, 'template is a syntax error'???"

[HiTech RedNeck]

On the other hand you can make a whopping profit till nobody can buy your product anymore, they've all gotten laid off.

[GingisK]

Any engineer on H1B visa who work in the US will make same salaries as their American counterpart and sometimes they make more.

This hasn't been the case at four companies where I have worked in recent years. The H1B visa program is one of the most abused loopholes in history.

[Ciexyz]

Good for another bump.

[grey_whiskers]

Hi Myrddin, We talked about the cyanide spill a couple of days ago... "I continued filling my bookshelf with CS and EE titles and learning"

So how do you mention the skills on the resume when you have only read about them? Are you "self-employeed" consultant? Through a contracting firm? Full Time Employee? Perspiring minds want to know! Cheers!

[Myrddin]

I wrote you a private mail on how that happens.

[FR_addict]

"My favorite one was where I had C++ on my resume and they asked me if I knew C."

I've had that happen too. One of the last statements that floored me was the person said all my answers to their C++ questions were correct, but that I didn't seem to have experience in object-oriented programming. Unless you are using C++ as a fancy C compiler, of course you are using object-oriented techniques.

Another thing that's happened is that I'm being asked off- the-wall problem solving questions. It turns out the solutions are all over the internet. I've been asked the same questions from recruitment companies out of India and from American recruiting companies.

Recently all the head hunters contacting me are Indians with very strong accents. Some of them have been calling me from India. They call at night, because of the time difference. Now, I wonder what type of skill is needed to be a recruiter that Americans don't have. Money is the only thing I can think of, since they are certainly hard to understand and don't have in-depth knowledge of the questions they are asking. You can tell they are going down a list of specific questions and if you don't give an answer that is not the same as the one in front of them, they won't understand that your answer may also be correct, just not the book answer.

I never thought I would be recruited by the Indian companies to fill vacancies in the USA. I very seldom talk to an American anymore, or at least not one without an Indian accent.

[Feldkurat_Katz]

Recruiters and HR drones usually don't know what they are talking about, so they just try to match keywords.

Right now I am working for one of those rare companies where people who make hiring decisions are allowed to think and capable of thinking; they took me on board knowing that I matched only 75% of keywords, and assumed that I would pick up the rest in 2 weeks. And I did.

Alas, that's an exception.