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China map lays claim to Americas ( China Won't Stop at Taiwan?)
BBC NEWS ^ | Friday, 13 January 2006, 13:23 GMT | BBC NEWS (general staff)

Posted on 01/14/2006 7:34:00 AM PST by Candor7

China map lays claim to Americas

The map clearly shows the Americas and Africa

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

A map due to be unveiled in Beijing and London next week may lend weight to a theory a Chinese admiral discovered America before Christopher Columbus. The map, which shows North and South America, apparently states that it is a 1763 copy of another map made in 1418.

If true, it could imply Chinese mariners discovered and mapped America decades before Columbus' 1492 arrival.

The map, which is being dated to check it was made in 1763, faces a lot of scepticism from experts.

Chinese characters written beside the map say it was drawn by Mo Yi Tong and copied from a map made in the 16th year of the Emperor Yongle, or 1418.

It clearly shows Africa and Australia.

The British Isles, however, are not marked.

Controversial claim

The map was bought for about $500 from a Shanghai dealer in 2001 by a Chinese lawyer and collector, Liu Gang.

According to the Economist magazine, Mr Liu only became aware of the map's potential significance after he read a book by British author Gavin Menzies.

The book, 1421: The Year China discovered America, made the controversial claim that a Chinese admiral and eunuch, Zheng He, sailed around the world and discovered America on the way.

Zheng He, a Muslim mariner and explorer, is widely thought to have sailed around South East Asia and India, but the claim he visited America is hotly disputed.

The map is now being tested to check the age of its paper and ink, with the results due to be known in February.

Even if it does prove to have been drawn in 1763, sceptics will point out that we still only have the mapmaker's word that he copied if from a 1418 map, rather than from a more recent one.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1421; 1492; ageofsail; america; china; christophercolumbus; columbus; columbusday; commoncore; commoncorenavigation; discovery; gavinmenzies; godsgravesglyphs; navigation; precolumbus; yongle
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To: penowa

Why do they have to subdue us? Once our muslim population reaches a certain threshold they will use the ACLU to help them develop a muslim state here in america governed by sharia law just like they are doing in all the other countries right now. Canada is considering allowing muslims to be governed by their own laws. there are countless towns in europe that are going through this process right now. once they have their mosques built everywhere, they can consider it their holy land.


61 posted on 01/14/2006 9:53:52 AM PST by willyd (No nation has ever taxed its citizens into prosperity)
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To: Mighty Eighth
Unless you wanna believe Heyerdahl's bullcrap about the Egyptians doing so in a boat made from paper....

Heyerdahl's Kon Tiki theories have been disproven by modern DNA studies. I am not familiar with his Egyptian theories, but the Egyptians built wonderful wooden boats more than 4000 years ago:

62 posted on 01/14/2006 9:53:52 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Peace Begins in the Womb)
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To: ARCADIA
They didn't just discover America.

Yes, they are claiming to have done way too much.

This proves that they can forge a mean map.

63 posted on 01/14/2006 10:08:30 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: ARCADIA
OBTW: showing NW and NE passages is a nice touch.
64 posted on 01/14/2006 10:10:31 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: willyd
Why do they have to subdue us?

Because they aren't willing to wait for the enemy within to multiply and take over. The crisis will come sooner rather than later IMO. We are surrounded now and they will keep pulling the noose tighter. First comes the financial crisis and if we don't cave to that, they will simply obliterate us while our govt. dithers trying to figure out what to do. There may be a response before it's over if there is anybody left to pull the trigger, but our govt. will never nuke anybody just because they warn us to cave or look out for incoming.

65 posted on 01/14/2006 10:28:10 AM PST by penowa
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To: penowa

I don't agree with you that they don't have the patience. China has existed as a sovereign nation for over 800 years. They are actively engaged in developing diplomatic and business ties in central and south america with the intent of spreading communist ideology. They have bought or stolen all of our worthwhile technology as well as some pretty sensitive nuclear secrets in Los Alamos (thanks Billy Bob). They have taken over operation of the Panama Canal through the over seas trading company. They now operate the largest shipping port in the Phillipines complete with fuel depot, air strips and shipping port through the same company. they are establishing military bases to protect the shipping lanes through the middle east. they have publicly threatened nuclear retaliation for any meddling in Taiwan. They have built a population that is predominately male through their one child per family policies which is useful for a standing army. They have sold sensitive offensive weapons and nuclear technology to the North Koreans and the Iranis. They have established a computer hacking team as part of their military to aid in causing financial damage to a potential enemy's economy. they have distributed pamphlets to their senior military that say war fare in the post wwii era will be fought through economic, technological and terrorist style attacks rather than through brute force. I think they couldn't make it any more obvious what they are up to. But in our defense, history is rife with examples of countries that underestimated the resolve of the American fighting forces. The only problem is that past victories don't determine future success.


66 posted on 01/14/2006 10:54:35 AM PST by willyd (No nation has ever taxed its citizens into prosperity)
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To: Candor7
...and we ALL know that china never counterfeits anything. </sarc>
67 posted on 01/14/2006 10:55:23 AM PST by solitas (So what if I support an OS that has fewer flaws than yours? 'Mystic' dual 500 G4's, OSX.4.2)
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To: willyd

They have done everything you say and more. All they need to do now is get rid of us. Why would they wait 20+ yrs? They may be patient, but I don't believe they will pass up their opportunity when it comes.


68 posted on 01/14/2006 11:01:19 AM PST by penowa
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To: Candor7

Oh this is news? Didn't David Carradine colonize the West for his motherland?


69 posted on 01/14/2006 11:04:12 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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To: JoeSixPack1

Yeap. Very good observation. Now we know what is coming next- the people from TROP will start claiming Muslim America was stolen by white man; first step for their Jihad for freeing muslim American land occupied by white man.


70 posted on 01/14/2006 11:10:34 AM PST by rajuchor
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To: cmppc
It is racist to suggest that Chinese, or Vikings, or Egyptians were the first "people" or to come to America.

"rasicm"? Huh. Really kinda pro-aboriginal-amerind there, ya'?

71 posted on 01/14/2006 11:12:46 AM PST by solitas (So what if I support an OS that has fewer flaws than yours? 'Mystic' dual 500 G4's, OSX.4.2)
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To: ovrtaxt
…David Carradine…

"When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it wi..."
*whap* "Y'mean like that?"
"Okaaay, how 'bout two-outta-three?"

I liked that show; couldn't stand "The Legend Continues..." though.

72 posted on 01/14/2006 11:20:30 AM PST by solitas (So what if I support an OS that has fewer flaws than yours? 'Mystic' dual 500 G4's, OSX.4.2)
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To: penowa

I didn't meant that they would wait that long...I meant that their assessment of the situation predicts that a confrontation is inevitable at some point between now and then.


73 posted on 01/14/2006 11:29:10 AM PST by willyd (No nation has ever taxed its citizens into prosperity)
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To: rajuchor
"Now we know what is coming next- the people from TROP will start claiming Muslim America was stolen by white man; first step for their Jihad for freeing muslim American land occupied by white man."

Too late:

Precolumbian Muslims In America

74 posted on 01/14/2006 2:36:13 PM PST by blam
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To: willyd

I thought they had existed as a sovereign nation for over 2200 years?

(If you're refering to the mongolians -- they did take control but they "sinified", or, rather, became Chinese themselves. Same goes with Manchurians).

Their method of "conquest" is always through culture and assimilation. Their empire grew bigger because OTHER nations or cultures ATTACK and CONQUERED them, but in the end, the other cultures end up being conquered (i.e. the conquering cultures ASSIMILATED themselves and not the other way around). Mongolians didn't live in tents after they controlled China, they lived in Chinese palaces, used Chinese/Confucius rule of law.

China's immediate focus is on Taiwan. It's easy to become paranoid, but their naval build up today is focus on one thing, Taiwan and the possible American intervention.


75 posted on 01/14/2006 9:25:00 PM PST by pganini
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To: blam

The recorded history (from both China and other cultures) shows that he has reached as far as Africa. There are some evidence that he reached the Americas, but it's not 100% proven because there is no corresponding American historians at the time (Indonesians, INdians, etc. all have historical records of his visit). In fact, he went so far as to put down a rebellion in Indonesia, took the person responsible back to China as a prisoner where the emperor had him executed for the rebellion.


76 posted on 01/14/2006 9:27:01 PM PST by pganini
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To: xrp
"There's also evidence that Hebrews from a couple of thousand years ago (or more) landed and explored the Americas."

I guess that's why Mel Brooks' Indian Chief in Blazing Saddles spoke Yiddish.
77 posted on 01/14/2006 9:32:05 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: indcons
Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

78 posted on 01/14/2006 9:51:05 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: Capriole
That is EXACTLY correct. The accuracy of the polar regions destroys the credibility of this map. There is NO WAY that the Chinese could have pushed into either the Northwest Passage or Antarctica. ZIPPO possibility of that.

It is quite possible, and I would say nearly certain, that the Chinese had discovered the North American West Coast by 1500.

Herodotus suggests that the Phoenicians had circumnavigated Africa (clockwise starting in the Red Sea) over a period of 3 years around 600 BC. It would not even surprise me to find conclusive evidence one day that the Carthaginians were in South American around 450 BC. Certainly Hanno was already in modern day Sierra Leone by then with 60 ships and thousands of settlers.

By 600 BC the Phoenicians had invented the keel. They used covered decks and had excellent sails and rigging. Their vessels were about 90 feet in length and could carry 50 to 100 tons. They were comparable to 15th century Portugese caravels and could travel 100 miles in 24 hours. Were the Phoenicians or Carthaginians in South America 2,500 years ago? Maybe. Maybe not. PROBABLY not. But Maybe. There are some insteresting hints that they were, including potential numismatic evidence. But still....probably not.

I am very much reminded by this Chinese map of the Vinland Map forgery. There is a wonderful book on the topic by Kirsten A. Seaver called "Maps, Mythes, and Men" in which she likely determines the identity of the forger and his sources of parchment.

I strongly suspect that the mass spectrometry tests will confirm the map is a fraud.

jas3
79 posted on 01/14/2006 10:49:52 PM PST by jas3
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To: Candor7

Yes, by all means, you're correct to mention those rings, and sorry I didn't respond sooner - I was watching closely, and taking note of, occult patterns in the play calling of the Broncos/Patriots game; it's clear that the Broncos' defensive coach was channeling the spirit of the third emperor of Atlantis.

But... those encoder rings. Available in every 333rd box of Cracker Jack during the period 1957-1959, those rings, when used in conjunction with the 33rd line of page 33 of The National Enquirer of March 3rd, throughout the three years of the specified period, yielded the operating sequence for the Atlantean matter scrambler/descrambler hidden away deep in the Andes. The sequence was placed there by a prominent member of the Eisenhower administration on deep cover as a journalist, whose intelligence community code name was "Agent Twenty-Seven" - or, occasionally, "Three-To-The-Third."

As far as I know, no one else is aware of this, and I share the secret with the world now in order that this Chinese map will be seen for the forgery I know it to be, inasmuch as the existence of The Gang of Four during the communist period evinces with unmistakable clarity that the Chinese government was, and - I believe - continues to be, unaware of the importance of the number 3 in acquiring access to the Atlantean chamber beneath the Sphinx in which the earliest complete map of the world is hidden - with many texts containing much other lore, besides.


80 posted on 01/14/2006 11:58:19 PM PST by Jack Hammer
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