Posted on 12/21/2005 7:24:58 AM PST by piperpilot
To pray -- or not to pray -- in Jesus' name is the question plaguing an increasing number of U.S. military chaplains, one of whom began a multiday hunger strike outside the White House yesterday.
"I am a Navy chaplain being fired because I pray in Jesus' name," said Navy Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt, who will be holding 6 p.m. prayer vigils daily in Lafayette Park.
The hunger strike is intended to persuade President Bush to issue an executive order allowing military chaplains to pray according to their individual faith traditions. The American Center for Law and Justice has gathered 173,000 signatures on a petition seeking an executive order.
Seventy-three members of Congress have joined the request, saying in an Oct. 25 letter to the president, "In all branches of the military, it is becoming increasingly difficult for Christian chaplains to use the name of Jesus when praying."
About 80 percent of U.S. troops are Christian, the legislators wrote, adding that military "censorship" of chaplains' prayers disenfranchises "hundreds of thousands of Christian soldiers in the military who look to their chaplains for comfort, inspiration and support."
Official military policy allows any sort of prayer, but Lt. Klingenschmitt says that in reality, evangelical Protestant prayers are censored. He cites his training at the Navy Chaplains School in Newport, R.I., where "they have clipboards and evaluators who evaluate your prayers, and they praise you if you pray just to God," he said. "But if you pray in Jesus' name, they counsel you."
Muslim, Jewish and Roman Catholic chaplains are likewise told not to pray in the name of Allah, in Hebrew or in the name of the Trinity, he added.
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
"The moment of decision is upon us. Whom will we serve."
No question about that!
It should be interesting ... .
Be careful not to jump on someone's bandwagon simply because they call themselves an "evangelical." I know many people on Klingenschmidt's old ship USS ANZIO. There is way more to the story than he is telling. He could not function well among the crew, which is vital if you are to be an effective chaplain. What this legal foundation and their supporters do not understand is that chaplains must wear two hats; a public one (retiremont and change of command cereomies) that must be non-sectarian. The other hat they wear is when they conduct their own worship services and bible studies--they are expected to represent their denominational background, whatever that may be.
We must also be willing to facilitate for faiths other than our own, i.e. training layleaders, getting the sailor in touch with a chaplain more consistent with their faith.
I think of Daniel who must have played by the rules of a pagan culture to be as valued as he was. But he didn't actually disobey the rules that I can remember until the king was tricked into signing an irrevokable law that anyone who petitioned anyone other than the king would be thrown to the lions. Daniel, a faithful man of prayer, continued to pray privately, and was caught doing so. The distraught king who had signed the legislation pleaded with Daniel to pray for protection and he, the pagan king, actually prayed himself for Daniel. After their prayers were answered, Daniel's enemies and their families were themselves fed to the beasts. And the kings proclaimed that Daniel's God was the living God indeed with an eternal dominion.
The Bible tells wonderful stories and gives guidelines for our behavior, but no blueprint. The book of I Peter 2 says that we are to submit to the king (a concept that would mean state authority). It says other interesting things as well: Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority... For such is the will of God... do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable. For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
The concept of submission is a very important, and often overlooked, one in the Bible, because we are to submit ourselves to God. We carry that out on a daily basis by being submissive to others.
But that does not answer what to do when we are ordered to disobey. It's a tough question. Yes, Jesus overturned the moneychanger's tables, but I'm not Jesus and I'm reluctant to disobey authority unless I'm absolutely sure that it's the right thing to do. And life isn't always that black and white.
As a former non believer, I have to disagree. One thing that kept me away from my faith was the actions of Christians. Many are the most foul and vile folks you can find. And then they hide behind "well I have Grace" or "well we're all born into sin" and "no ones perfect".
Yes, we do have Grace, but it's not to be exploited. Yes, we're all born into sin, but we also have free will to cast it aside. Yes, no ones perfect, but it's not an excuse to hide behind our human frailties.
My former father in law was one of the so called Christians. Elder in his Church. Handed out bibles, testified about his faith, was a lead in his local area Promise Keepers. You could never meet a more dishonest person. At his funeral,his business associates were chuckling about how he was a "Christian" yet lived the life he lived. All shook their heads in amazement when the preacher talked about a new saint in heaven.
I don't need to lower myself to ugly name calling as you are doing.
It is a FACT that Catholic pray TO Mary and other dead Saints. Does "praying the rosary" sound familiar? Catholics have a Saint to pray TO for practically everything. You know it and so do others so to feign indignation at this is a tad outrageous.
All of this praying to anyone but Christ, only serves as a distract away from Christ to whom you should be praying TO.
"Jesus is mentioned a great deal in the Mass and in the prayers used by Catholic Chaplains."
I'm glad to hear that His name is mentioned allot. Perhaps you will eventually rely on Him and pray only TO Him rather then the others you pray TO.
Perhaps you need to follow your own advice:
"Your vile filth pollutes any discussion amongst religious matters, because Catholics are always the bad guy. Cut it out."
Catholics aren't bad people ... it's what they believe and who they rely on and pray TO that is problematic - that is according to what God states in the Bible ... . It is not in agreement with the Bible.
Any other foul replies from you to me, will be ignored.
That's certainly a very Christianly way of stating a disagreement. My husband is Catholic and I've been in churches where I've seen people kneel before statues of the virgin Mary and pray to her. And my mother-in-law has a little shrine to her in her kitchen. Now, I'm not familiar enough with Catholic practices to say whether or not these are common ones. But I've seen them.
The principle of separation is breached by virtue of the fact that the State is employing clergy of any religion. If the State is your employer, then presumably it can issue directives for the performance of your duties.
I suppose it just depends on the person ... mu spouse, a devout atheist is slllooowwwwlyyy turning around.
You do raise good points!
If you've been in a military family for 20 years, then you would certainly know. I'm grateful to your family for their service to our great country!
There's a lot to be said for following orders. I think that we get so democratic minded that we forget how important that is.
No, I said, "Do you take a paycheck at your job?"
I'm not going to let you play 'gotcha'. Your asking a laundry list of nonsense questions hoping to catch me make a mistake is silly.
Just so everyone is clear....A chaplain may conduct his worhsip services in anyway consistent with his/her faith background. I do worship services every sunday on my ship and Jesus is very much part of what I do through and through. It's public functions that more tact is required (retiremont, change of command ceremonies and yes even funerals). This is made clear to us from the get go.
One of the things that impresses me about a few really unique Christians is not what they say, but how they live. They don't wear their faith on their sleeves. They don't tell the world about Christ. Yet there is something that drew me to them without a word about their faith. One I asked, I was told what their guiding force was. I was impressed.
I guess I've become sensitive to those Christians who want to impose their faith on everyone rather than expose their faith and the goodness that follows.
Many Christians, including most "activist" Christians are about imposing their faith.
An awful lot of people died for these freedoms, must it be in vain?
LOL!!
Folk are not bound to have their religious conscience violated by the State.
Disobedience to tyrants is obedience to God.
The Hebrew midwives preserved the life of Moses as over against the Pharaoh's orders.
Peter and John disregarded the civil authority of the Sanhedrin and continued to preach the message of Jesus.
The rub in this instance is that the chaplains are drawing their salary and support from the State be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. At that point they must decide, if they believe praying in the name of Allah or Jesus is a matter of conscience, whether they will bow the knee to the King or stand by their convictions even if it entails punitive sanction from the State, ala Daniel's friends in Daniel 3.
Sad isn't the word.
Infuriating and enraging is the word.
I have no problem with Jewish clergymen praying in Hebrew, Christian clergymen using "Jesus", etc.
This stupid nonesense must stop and unless we rise up in joint outrage, it will continue to grow worse.
There are elements in our society which wish to erase our enttire cultural, social and historical tradition and they are activists in the name of political correctness.
When a chaplain is leading a service for those of his own faith, he should be able to pray in accordance with that faith. However, when a chaplain is saying a public prayer, for a mixed-faith group, things are different. The chaplain should respect the faiths of all those in his audience.
I'm not a chaplain, but I've been frequently asked to lead the invocation at our gun club's annual banquet (for all I know, maybe I'm the only one there who knows how to pray, or is willing to pray in public). Anyway, because the Club membership includes Catholics, Protestants and Jews, I always make my prayer non-denominational.
When I attended Squadron Officer School back in 1957, we had a lecture from the school chaplain. The lecture was about the chaplain's duties. This particular chaplain was a Protestant, but he pointed out that part of his duties were to see that a Mass was said for Catholics, which meant that the had to find a priest if no Catholic chaplain was available. The point is, a chaplain has two kinds of duties. One is to provide for the needs of those troops of his own faith. The other is to see that the needs of troops of other faiths are met, even though he cannot meet them himself. Therefore when he leads a public prayer as part of an official ceremony, his obligation is to respect the faiths of all those present. This can be satisfied only by a nondenominational prayer.
Granted, it might be difficult to find a nondenominational prayer that satisfies Wiccans or Satanists as well as the three most common religions in America, but I've never had to deal with that problem.
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