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1 posted on 11/18/2005 7:58:34 AM PST by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave

Sore loser. But it really isn't his business because he doesn't live in Kansas.


2 posted on 11/18/2005 8:03:09 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past ("The President and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone)
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To: Uncledave
"and the fool said in his heart: There is no god"
4 posted on 11/18/2005 8:12:40 AM PST by prophetic
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To: Uncledave
The relentless attempt to confuse the two by teaching warmed-over creationism as science..

Its been stated repeatedly but for some reason this guy and other evolutionists still want to misrepresent ID as Creationism. ID is not creationism. ID is Deism. Creationism involves a personal God. ID does not profess belief in a personal GOD. Actually the premise behind ID is hostile to Creationism.
5 posted on 11/18/2005 8:12:49 AM PST by Mulch (tm)
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To: Uncledave

The theory of evolution is basically a denial that there is ANY intelligence in the universe. It requires that a Boeing 747 be regarded as a product of blind chance. Why? Because if all of nature operates according to blind mechanism, natural selection, and inexplicable mutations, then there is no reason or guiding intelligence ANYWHERE in the process from the pre-biotic soup all the way to the 747.


7 posted on 11/18/2005 8:25:04 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: Uncledave

The third level of knowing God is finally understanding that you cannot possibly know God.


8 posted on 11/18/2005 8:26:47 AM PST by Bob Buchholz
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To: Uncledave

ID in science classes is the logical and incorrect solution to the real problem, the teaching of history in science classes.

The science of mutations, and of selection of preferable over inferior structures, has been co-opted by those who disdain God as an alternative explanation of the history of the world.

So, far from "protecting" science from religion, in many cases science textbooks are full of "best-guess" historical speculation as to what happened before there were people to observe and record it.

And this is no more evident than each time a textbook has to be revised, NOT because a NEW THEORY better explains a previous theory based on scientific experimentation and discovery, but simply because someone digging a hole somewhere finds some new "fact" which unfortunately proves the existing speculation of history to be false.

In other words, our science classes have been taken over by those who dispise the notion of having to credit God with our existance. They have done so by pretending to be representing "science" when in fact they are merely revisionist historians, making up fanciful theories of our existance and pre-existance which, while "compatable" with known scientific theory, is not a necessary consequence of it.

In other words, the scientific notion of mutation, selection, and speciation is consistent with, but does not dictate, a particular historical myth.

If tomorrow we discovered that, in fact, God did create the world 8000 years ago, the theory of evolution would stand intact, a known fact based on years of careful scientific scrutiny.

But the historical fiction woven around the theory which is now taught as science in our science classrooms would, of course, be rendered moot. Just like so many "charts" of the history of man have been found to be false as we do more "historical" evaluation and find more forensic (not scientific) evidence.

But the scientific community fails to make this distinction, or meet the religious community halfway based on this truth, and instead insists on forcing a historical myth which opposes many people's religious beliefs down their throats as "proven scientific fact", when it is no such thing. And the religious people, content to allow science to have its theories, balks at having it's religions stolen or denigrated with speculation.

So it fights back with Intelligent Design, which is not only truly science (but is as scientific as those charts showing the piltdown man) but may not in fact correspond to the truth of our existance.

If God exists, and has the power and the inclination to interfere in the normal functioning of our planet, that presense would, by definition, be outside the realm of true scientific theory (since by its nature it presumes God making things happen that would NOT happen by the normal means that our science describes).

But, presuming the above, Science -- which could not show the interference -- would also not disprove it, or be able to correctly predict all future events, or correctly describe the past. Because Science could not predict or explain any interaction God may choose to carry out in the future, or show where such interaction happened in the past.

To boil it down to a cartoon version of the argument: If God decided to create the world 8000 years ago, but wanted to disguise his act so that people had to BELIEVE in him, rather than having his existance proven to them such that they had no choice, he could well have created the universe such that all observation would lead to what we see today.

A scientist would rightly point out that this is no scientific argument, because how can I scientifically argue for the deception of science. But, that scientist can also not, through science, disprove my theory. And since they can't, science should not preach as fact an alternative to my theory, and say that it is in fact the SCIENTIFICALLY correct story.

Being the cartoon-version, the last paragraph is easily parodied and belittled, but it is presented only to illuminate, not for its detractors to pretend as they often do that it is the sum total of the argument.


11 posted on 11/18/2005 8:28:47 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Uncledave
Dover distinguished itself this Election Day by throwing out all eight members of its school board who tried to impose ``intelligent design'' -- today's tarted-up version of creationism -- on the biology curriculum. Pat Robertson then called down the wrath of God upon the good people of Dover for voting ``God out of your city.''

Pat Robertson, for one, does not pay the slightest attention when various ID promoters insist despite all evidence that it is a secular movement within science.

15 posted on 11/18/2005 8:38:59 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Uncledave

I.D. is a position, just as Darwinian evolution is a position. The Pa. issue is/was the exclusivity of evolutionism. In the Scopes trial, the issue was the exclusivity of creationism. To maintain modern elitist dogma, evolutionists want to censor (keep from students) data that may suggest the i.d. position so now the roles are reversed. Now who wants to deny science?


17 posted on 11/18/2005 8:44:02 AM PST by Nanny7
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To: Uncledave

I.D. is a position, just as Darwinian evolution is a position. The Pa. issue is/was the exclusivity of evolutionism. In the Scopes trial, the issue was the exclusivity of creationism. To maintain modern elitist dogma, evolutionists want to censor (keep from students) data that may suggest the i.d. position so now the roles are reversed. Now who wants to deny science?


19 posted on 11/18/2005 8:44:58 AM PST by Nanny7
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To: Uncledave

The point isn't whether it would be nice if God used evolution, of course He could have. But anything close to a literal reading of Genesis doesn't allow for it.


23 posted on 11/18/2005 8:49:03 AM PST by TeenagedConservative
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To: Uncledave
Krauthammer can't help it.Sometimes his brain cells are just overwhelmed with memories of the indoctrination he was subjected to at Harvard.
24 posted on 11/18/2005 8:50:54 AM PST by Gay State Conservative
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To: Uncledave

Lemme see if I understand Charles correctly here: He is saying it is not proper to fill evolutionary gaps with God because it is only proper to fill these "gaps" with scientific faith?

I suppose Charles also confuses adaption with evolution.


37 posted on 11/18/2005 8:57:15 AM PST by AZRepublican
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To: Uncledave
Math and Science are tools of the devil. The earth is flat, and the sun revolves around the earth. Dinosaurs never existed and the earth is around 6,000 years old. Kansas curriculum in a nutshell.
40 posted on 11/18/2005 8:59:26 AM PST by FFIGHTER (Character Matters!)
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To: Uncledave

Teach religion at home or in churches. Why would anyone want public school teachers, who have difficulty teaching math and language, teaching their children about religion?


43 posted on 11/18/2005 9:02:22 AM PST by Blue Screen of Death (/i)
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To: Uncledave

I love Krauthammer like a god. But his understanding of Newton leaves much to be desired.

He was not religious in the tradition of the Church Of England. (He didn't even accept their view on the Trinity.) And he held quite odd views on other issues as well. (Such as the Bible's "code.")

Newton was also an alchemist and astrologer, who believed in the occult magic and wisdom of the ancients. All in all an odd choice to bring up when you are mocking Creationists.


45 posted on 11/18/2005 9:03:44 AM PST by Sam Hill
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To: Uncledave

Most public schools can't even teach johnny to read. Since johnny can't read he won't be able understand darwinisms, IDisms or any isms....(especially not the socialism being shoved down his throat).


48 posted on 11/18/2005 9:05:16 AM PST by Kokojmudd (Outsource the US Senate to Mexico!)
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To: Uncledave; Cacique
Krauthammer is fast becoming my favorite commentator. As a man of science, he knows that we should not dumb down our students with political/religious propaganda.

Keep theology out of science and science out of theology.

Remember that these kids don't have to put up with "Intelligent Design" and "Heather has Two Mommies." Its no wonder they are starting to dominate the Science departments at our finest universities:


49 posted on 11/18/2005 9:05:43 AM PST by Clemenza (Ticking Away the Moments that Make up the Dog Day)
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To: Uncledave

Duplicate: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1524317/posts


63 posted on 11/18/2005 9:18:09 AM PST by Theo
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To: Uncledave

I really like Krauthammer and think he is right on 99% of the time. He's right here too, in my opinion. I believe in ID and evolution. They are compatible and complimentary to each other but should not be taught together. Scientific theory has its own methodology, criteria that must be met in order to be science. ID does not meet this.

Krauthammer does support Roe v Wade. Morality issues aside, his support of bad constitutional law makes him a little suspect.


92 posted on 11/18/2005 10:27:41 AM PST by oneofmany (Tolerance is the virtue of a man with no convictions - G.K. Chesterton(The Apostle of Common Sense)
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To: Uncledave
What could be more elegant, more simple, more brilliant, more economical, more creative, indeed more divine than a planet with millions of life forms, distinct and yet interactive, all ultimately derived from accumulated variations in a single double-stranded molecule, pliable and fecund enough to give us mollusks and mice, Newton and Einstein?

A beautifully concise summary of the dominant creation myth of our time.

Compared to the origin of the "single double-stranded molecule" to begin with, which he takes for granted--a good example of straining at gnats and swallowing camels--all other posited subsequent evolution is, relative to that, a virtual certainty. Of course, the "single double-stranded molecule" is just what a living cell uses to maintain ongoing processes, including reproduction. DNA (or RNA, for those folks who believe it came first) didn't give rise to anything.

As a board-certified psychiatrist, Charles ought to be looking for the reason why he's so resistant to getting his facts straight about just what ID proponents are saying.
155 posted on 11/19/2005 9:27:23 AM PST by aruanan
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