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.40 vs .45 LAW ENFORCEMENT USE

Posted on 10/26/2005 1:36:11 AM PDT by bramdawg

Going onto a local PD in los angeles area. Have heard stories both about .40's and .45's what is really the difference. I know comfort is important put I want to know if I will be safe with a .40 or if I should go with .45. I want the best gun for my job.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: California; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; bbgunnin; lyingtroll
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To: Squantos; MileHi

Even I'm not cruel enough to make a Thunderwear joke.



201 posted on 10/28/2005 11:02:54 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: Squantos; yarddog

LOL! Thanks for the tips.


202 posted on 10/28/2005 11:10:12 AM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

You'll shoot yer errrr...........eye out wearing that crap !

LOL !


203 posted on 10/28/2005 11:14:41 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: jec1ny

.357 bump


204 posted on 10/28/2005 11:16:14 AM PDT by semaj (qu)
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To: bramdawg

I imagine most PD's limit what you can carry. They probably have their gun or chioce of two or so to pick from.

Red6


205 posted on 10/28/2005 11:41:30 AM PDT by Red6
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To: jec1ny

Most loads you can buy, and the loads Marshall studied years ago were not loaded to "full-house" potential. The 10mm is capable of amazing speed and power if loaded to full potential.

Please visit: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php

and get back to me.


206 posted on 10/28/2005 1:56:13 PM PDT by tx4guns (Guns don't murder people; stupid people murder people.)
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To: tx4guns
That is an interesting point. Obviously new loads come out on a regular basis and some of them might legitimately be contenders in an ongoing study of stopping power. (I wish that someone had the time and money to do a continuous study that would be updated annually... but I digress.) However, pending a study which shows their effectiveness, I would be inclined to stick with a weapon and load that has a proven 1 shot stopping capability in the mid to high 90 percentile range. If and when a study appears that gives reliable figures for the new loads I would be extremely interested in seeing it.
207 posted on 10/28/2005 2:18:40 PM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: paul51

---Since you asked for an opinion, Sig P226 or P229 (whichever fits best) chambered in .357 Sig.---

Or a Glock 31. The grip is slimmer, it holds 15 rounds, and the bore axis is lower. Glocks are tough as nails, reliable, easy to take down, and require little maintenance. I think it's the finest combat handgun available today. Like the Sigs you can drop in a 40 S&W barrel. If you get a 31C you can use ported or unported barrels.


208 posted on 10/28/2005 8:51:25 PM PDT by claudiustg (Go Bush! Go Sharon!)
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To: jec1ny; tx4guns

This link is to a site which you may find interesting. Lots of rather well-researched articles.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/afte.htm


209 posted on 10/31/2005 1:51:16 PM PST by PoorMuttly (Really!)
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To: bramdawg

*Can of worms alert*

This subject could be debated until the democRATs gain the whitehouse again and still not be resolved.

I've carried many sidearms over the years and have to admit, I'll take a lighter weapon over a thinner, heavier one. The advantage of the 1911 frame is that it's thin and less likely to print, but what you gain in conceilability (how the hell do you spell that anywho?) you pick up in frame weight. Plus, I like shooting those big rounds.

Now I carry a .40 for a couple of reasons. 1) I shoot it better. 2) The sticker price for my Glock 23 was lower 3) I don't have to worry about the loud *whack* my Kimber made sideswiping door frames or tables anymore 4) I'm convinced the .40 has better stopping power with the proper round.

Plus...I don't have to worry about sweating on the Glock.

Realizing most of those reasons were cosmetic and had little to do with kinetic energy...my personal opinion is go with the .40 but, do so with a frame you can shoot well.


210 posted on 10/31/2005 2:11:43 PM PST by Fighting Irish
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To: chadwimc

.22 right behind the ear kills steers dead.


211 posted on 10/31/2005 2:23:11 PM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: xcamel

Yes, but a Tommy Gun will allow you to gain quite a public image while appeasing the peace loving crowd by going Budha-Budha-Budha...


212 posted on 10/31/2005 2:26:58 PM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: Cvengr

Fashion statements are important.


213 posted on 10/31/2005 7:40:51 PM PST by PoorMuttly ("Conservative:one enamored of existing evils.Liberal:one who wishes to replace them with others")
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To: Tijeras_Slim

"Even I'm not cruel enough to make a Thunderwear joke."

The OSS had a crotch holster, so there goes the joke...which leads to other jokes, however. Squantos probably wears one, and archy probably has the first, second, and third model with arsenal museum tags.

I understand that the Second model, transitional, works better with Speedos, but I'd need another trip to the range to confirm it. Having a little trouble finding someone willing to work the stopwatch.

And now, I introduce my new Tagline, a compression of a line by Ambrose Bierce:


214 posted on 10/31/2005 7:57:01 PM PST by PoorMuttly ("Conservative:one enamored of existing evils.Liberal:one who wishes to replace them with others")
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To: bramdawg

All the cops I've talked to (and I've talked to quite a few on the subject of what to carry and when to use it) told me that their attitude is that, if they have to fire a weapon, it will be to kill. The reason I've been told the most has to do with the probability of being sued by someone they wounded, especially if that person is a minority. You can't be sued by a corpse (though you can be sued by the next of kin, of course). The point is that when you do fire your weapon, that you're sure of the need for it.

That said, I've heard a lot of opinions. One friend swears by 9mm with hydra-shocks (sp?) while another laments the loss of his .45 when the department went to .40. I'd say it depends very much on *where you will patrol*. If you're going to be in a ghetto with drugged-out junkies, then I'd go for something that will absolutely take the person down (all other things being equal, like shooting accuracy, which is not a trivial thing). I would imagine that a .45 with hydra-shocks would work well on someone on PCP, but you only get 7 shots, so you'd better not miss. On the other hand, if you're going to be on one of L.A.'s anti-gamg squads, then maybe the 9mm makes more sense since when things go bad there might be more than one bad guy, and they'll likely have money and guns. It's a tough subject -- my cop friends all work in suburbia so they tend to favor caliber over rounds, but a city cop has different things to deal with.


215 posted on 10/31/2005 8:12:22 PM PST by Windcatcher (Earth to libs: MARXISM DOESN'T SELL HERE. Try somewhere else.)
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To: PoorMuttly

I think Eaker tried the second model, but was dismayed that his cut down Mossberg 500 caused such a stir.


216 posted on 11/01/2005 5:13:58 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

Some things just should not be stirred.


217 posted on 11/01/2005 9:54:23 AM PST by PoorMuttly ("Conservative:one enamored of existing evils.Liberal:one who wishes to replace them with others")
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To: PoorMuttly

Shaken, not stirred.


218 posted on 11/01/2005 11:59:33 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: B4Ranch
Why the preference for the 135 grain bullet?

Yes, I'd like the details. LOL

Highest velocity, of course, and the 135s also gave the most expansion out of my 5-inch Argentine M27-length barrel. I figured reducing the chances of overpenetration was a plus, and they were reasonably accurate for the ranges I'd be working with.

They were also the only load that didn't ding the case mouth on ejection, not a big deal since I wasn't reloading the .400 then, but I figured that was a possible indicator of better reliability. And I had planned on picking up something smaller and more concealable [Glock 30? Officers Model?] to be converted to the same caliber and thought the 135 would most likely offer the best results from the shorter barrel.

As it turned out, I got a Glock 22 in .40 S&W instead, a good deal since I could get free once-fired cop brass. I eventually decided .40 S&W wasn't the way I wanted to go, and let the nice little handgun go to a deserving youngster who armtwisted his parents into *a 22 pistol* for his graduation present. I tried out a Glock 30- fairly extensively- in .45 and decided it doesn't fit my hand well. It was replaced with a Taurus PT145...but I really, really prefer having an external hammer on my handguns.

Further deponent knoweth not much.

219 posted on 11/01/2005 1:30:06 PM PST by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Fighting Irish
Now I carry a .40 for a couple of reasons. 1) I shoot it better.

That says it right there.

Any needed improvements can be built upon using that basis.

220 posted on 11/01/2005 1:31:58 PM PST by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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