Episcopal group plots takeover

Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | 10/23/5 | Tony LaRussa

[Crackingham]

An Episcopal group has a doomsday plan that calls for ousting conservative bishops and seizing church property if they attempt to break from the denomination over its increasingly liberal position on homosexuality.

The so-called "Day After" plan could kick in as early as June, when the Episcopal Church USA holds its General Convention in Columbus, Ohio, according to minutes from a closed steering committee meeting of the group Via Media.

Joan Gunderson of Aspinwall, who served as recording secretary for committee meeting in late September, said nothing from the strategy session has been approved by the group's leadership.

"The minutes from our meeting were not meant to be public," said Gunderson, who is vice president for policy of Progressive Episcopalians of Pittsburgh, formed to counter the conservative movement in the church. "It's a rough draft, and nothing in it has been finalized. We were just looking at possible worst-case scenarios."

Many in the church are bracing for a possible announcement by conservative bishops during the convention that the Anglican Communion Network be "recognized as the only legitimate expression" of Anglicanism in North America.

The Network was created by Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan and other conservative bishops after the denomination consecrated an openly homosexual man, V. Gene Robinson, as bishop of New Hampshire in 2003.

The denomination also angered many traditionalists by granting tacit approval for blessing services for same-sex couples.

Duncan believes the groundwork being laid to block conservatives from returning the church to its traditional roots is an extreme measure.

"If authentic, and we believe they are, the minutes of this meeting show how far the progressives are willing to go to appropriate what is not theirs," Duncan said. "I trust that the people in the Diocese of Pittsburgh will see clearly who is serving their best interest."

[Grampa Dave]

"We have the same problem in the ELCA. Nobody wants to be accused of being judgmental. Most see the danger but do nothing, "hoping things will get better".

"Well, I have a 13-year old son and I am not going to do that. I made a stand and made a move, to the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, where the "progressives" feel oppressed."

"It's a good thing!"

It is a good thing, and I hope that we have a split in the E church. Let the newcomers, who have probably done nothing of real value leave and go to the rental halls and shopping centers. Leave the Judgemental Conservatives alone in our churches we have built and maintained over the decades.

A lot of people like me, who have stopped going to the mens's groups and bible study groups will return to those groups. It gets very old hearing the lefties run down our president, own country and our political party. Then, we try to defend what we believe, we are screamed at and called judgemental.

In a lot of E churches, a hard left core group of screamers and left agenda pushers in the past decade have seemed to take over the Saturday Morning Men's groups, many of the women's groups and lot of the so called bible study groups.

[showme_the_Glory]

Did you know that where ever you find four you'll also find a fifth.

[Grampa Dave]

I'm sure that there are a lot gay bishops and priests who voted for the gay bishop.

Like you say this group works 24/7 to weaken the good churches and to seize control when we weaken or wear down.

Also, much of the problem are the liberals in our churches getting control by screaming and whining the loudest and longest over the past decade or two. See my reply above how groups are controlled by the liberals. Most of the ones I have seen screaming at the conservatives are not gay, but they will push the gay agenda as hard as the gays do.

[SweetCaroline]

In a lot of E churches, a hard left core group of screamers and left agenda pushers in the past decade have seemed to take over the Saturday Morning Men's groups, many of the women's groups and lot of the so called bible study groups

Most of the ones I have seen screaming at the conservatives are not gay, but they will push the gay agenda as hard as the gays do.

I saw way to much of that in the Catholic Church myself. One example was when I was called into the Religious education director's office when I was an teaching 6&7 graders. She asked me why I wasn't following the weekly printouts given us for instructing the children and I explained I was, but the children and I decided at the beginning of the school year to have a Q&A during the last have of weekly session each week. I felt that was good and necessary to help them know how to apply Gods teaching to obstacles they faced daily.

The director said "Well other teachers have heard discussions in your group about abortion, pre-martial sex, and homosexuality", I said yes, these are some of the question we discussed because the kids felt free enough to ask me about them.

I continued by mentioning that the children are effected by these obstacles daily and knowing the sins they commit and consequences they can produce is helpful to the children in making the right decision to avoid them.

The director then told me "We leave issues such as those to the parents and the schools and as far as HOMOSEXAL ISSUES THE CHURCH DOES NOT HAVE A STAND ON THAT".

That was the straw that broke the camels back, I left the Catholic Church because it no longer was the church I had Loved and worshiped in all my life.

[Albion Wilde]

The last Methodist Preacher, a man of undetermined sexual choices was the last straw for my MIL. One of the first things he did was to remove the American flag in the church...She labeled him an outright communist, and he didn't deny it. She stopped going to church. The Mehtodist preacher never visited he in her home or retirement home inspite of her being born into that church close to 90 years before her death.... she did not want the funeral held in the Methodist Church.

This could be my story line for line, with a few exceptions: it's in the midwest and I'm not; I'm not that old; and when I confronted my pastor about being gay he denied it; yet he was one of a group who so disrupted the 2000 Baltimore-Washington Annual Conference with their emotional declarations of gayness and lesbianity that police had to be called.

My executor looked at my recently-written instructions with bemusement: no pastor at my funeral, and hold it in the auditorium of the nearby school. I do hope to settle on another church before it's time, but until then, those are standing orders.

[Grampa Dave]

My Mother in Law prepaid the funeral parlor for the use of their big room for her funeral two years before her death. The only people who could speak at her funeral as per her request was the Baptist Minister, her sons and my wife. They opted for me to say a few things about her.

[sionnsar]

Thanks to Grampa Dave and Unam Sanctum for spotting this.

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Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

[CdMGuy]

In Newport Beach, CA 2 or 3 years ago, the members of one of the Episcopal churches and their pastor withdrew from the US church and affiliated themselves with a diocese in Africa because they were fed up with the gay issue. As I recall, two other churches in the Los Angeles ares did the same thing at the same time.

The bishop of the Los Angeles diocese filed suit against the church claiming that all of the church's assets were the property of the diocese and not the parish. Well, the church, and its members, claimed that title to the property resided with the church. It went to court, and the bishop LOST. I believe he lost in all three cases.

So, you can fight these US bishops and win, at least some of the time. Everything seems to be the same at the Newport Beach church except it now reports to an African diocese. Some members left but the overwhelming majority were in favor.