Posted on 09/24/2005 2:11:22 PM PDT by mwfsu84
Listening to a conservative radio talk show today, I heard the host bash Bush and the GOP on their lax immigration policies. He stated that this issue threatened to tear the GOP apart. And he isn't the first person to make that prediction.
I'm a staunch Republican who would hate to see such a dire prediction come true. I also admit in many ways I share Bush's views on the subject. Since he has done a poor job defending his views, I'd like to explain my own. Let's have a discussion and see if we can find some common ground. Or perhaps I am misinformed on the subject, in which case, I'd appreciate your input. I'd like to find some common ground...because I don't want this issue to destroy the conservative movement. Only civil responses, please. I didn't come here to fight.
I've always believed that America should be open to anyone who wants to work hard, live in peace. And the vast majority of immigrants who cross our southern border fit that description. I know several small business owners who hire them - both legally, by the way. They say they can't find Americans do the jobs they hire immigrants for. And these owners are extremely pleased with the immigrants' work ethic. They bust their tails and never complain.
Hispanic immigrants, for the most part, place a high value on their families. That's why many of them come here. A high percentage of them are practicing Catholics.
In my view, these are not the kind of people we should be turning away.
As I understand it, those who oppose illegal immigration do so for the following reasons:
1. It's in violation of the law.
2. Illegal immigrants use up services they don't pay for - schools, health care, etc.
3. Open borders leave us vulnerable to terrorists.
4. Many immigrants are violent criminals.
There is some validity to all of these arguments. Here are my responses.
1. Most of the immigrants here are in violation of the law. But like Prohibition in the 1920's, or the 55 mile an hour speed limit, it's a law that can't be effectively enforced.
We share an 1800 mile border with Mexico. What kind of barrier - physical or human - would possibly suffice to seal us off?
2. It's true that many Hispanics use services they didn't pay for. And I would hold their employers accountable for that. Employers should be the ones to report immigrants, taking out taxes from their payrolls. If not, the government should shut those businesses down, or fine them severely.
3. Open borders leave us vulnerable to terrorism. While I agree with this to an extent, I'd be more worried of terrorists crossing our border with Canada...a much longer border than the one with Mexico, by the way.
As I see it, there are two ways we can fight terrorists. We can seal off our borders, which is a defensive move. Or we can go on the offenisve, as we're doing in Afghanistan and Iraq right now. But we can't do both. Doing both would be cost prohibitive.
I would suggest the reason we haven't suffered a major terrorists attack in this country in over four years - despite our open borders - is because our strategy of going on the offensive is working.
4. Many illegal immigrants are violent criminals. I have no doubt this is true, but I'd like to know what the percentage is. As I said before, I believe the vast majority of individuals don't fit this description.
Hispanics are already the largest minority in America. Who they vote for in the future will determine which party stays in power.
In order to have a debate, we would have to have an adverserial two-party system where each party represented those who elected them. As someone who votes Republican, I can say I am not being represented on immigration or something call fiscal policy. Both parties are populated with politicians who cannot see beyond the next election and who are scared to debate this issue.
If the Big Corporations lose cheap labor they will move their operations overseas. Oh, wait, they are anyway.
Excessive government spending and not enforcing the border is tearing the GOP apart. I want Bush impeached along with half the "supreme" court. I also want most members of the house and senate recalled.
Article IV, Section 4
"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion."
Bush and congress are in violation of their oath of office and should be removed from office.
Build a wall like Israel did. It would pay for itself in a short period of time through decreased social services costs. In addition, put sniper towers every mile on the border. That would be 1800 snipers.
In just about any other country on Earth, you are liable to be shot if you sneak over the border. Why not here? Why not have a 5 mile demilitarized zone where civilians cannot enter except though designated border crossings?
You can be shot if you trespass Area 51, other government installations, or military bases. Why not the border?
We're reaching the practical limit for any immigration, legal or otherwise. As it is today, we have too much traffic and people. We simply can't have everyone on earth come here.
I'm so sick of hearing "Mexicans do the jobs that Americans won't." It's not that Americans won't do them, they just won't do the job for sub-par wages. Pay a real wage and you'll have Americans cleaning toilets, doing construction, landscaping, etc. just like 50 years ago.
What's worse is all these illegals are not assimulating. I almost hear Espanol more than I hear English nowadays. There's a ton of them that can't or won't speak English.
Your arguments are hopelessly naiive and demonstrate the enormous difficulty we are having knocking sense into a lot of Americans.
One-fourth of the prison population of California is illegal immigrants.
Hundreds of hospitals throughout the southeastern U.S. are on the verge of bankruptcy having to give free medical care to poverty-stricken border jumpers.
The construction of schools in the United States cannot possibly be financed and accomplished as fast as the flood of illegals are entering our country.
Illegals cost the American taxpayers billions more than they can possibly generate in tax revenues.
They are entering the United States with communicable diseases such as tuberculosis.
The origins of violent street gangs of our southeastern cities can be directly traced to the flood of illegals and the barios of hopelessness that have resulted from that flood.
The borders can be effectively controlled by simply making it a felony to employ an illegal. Without jobs, they'll stop coming and many already here will go home.
The penalty for hiring illegal aliens should include prison time and forfeiture of all real estate and personal property.
There is no shortage of labor in the United States. We have a population of nearly 300 million people.
There are millions ready to work. They just won't work for peanuts and live 25 to a house.
I can give you specific example after specific example of legal aliens and American citizens who are underemployed because employers are hiring illegals and undermining the market price (wages) of labor.
Those who obey the law are being penalized so others can exploit an illiterate and desperate underclass.
Legal aliens of hispanic origin DO NOT SUPPORT BORDER JUMPERS. After all, the legal immigrants went through a lot of red tape to be here and they deeply resent others who broke the law.
Illegal immigration is undermining U.S. sovereignty. It is undermining our common culture. It is destroying our common language.
It is wanton lawlessness which begets more and more lawlessness
Illegals don't have to provide birth certificates required of American citizens. We are creating a society where the criminals get preferential treatment in every aspect of daily life. Illegals don't have to pay for medical care. They don't have play by the rules because their very presence is a violation of America's rules.
You are supporting a destruction of this country by supporting lawlessness.
Obeying the law DOES MATTER!!!
If you don't want trespassing strangers to obey the law, why should I have to?
I think the millions of us who obey the law should simply start disobeying it.
See how you like that!
The illegal immigrants who work here earn wages so low that even fully taxing their earnings doesn't pay for the social services they and their families consume. By holding employers "accountable" do you mean that you are proposing special fees on illegal employment of Mexicans? That is the only way the ledger could go from negative to positive.
As it stands now, each illegal costs the taxpayer $88,000 lifetime (this figure is from illegal advocates).
show me one general contractor that is going to move his operation overseas....
Luckily, the Third World is available at every street corner (with a wink and a nod from President Bush)
But the best way for most of these South American countries to improve themselves is revolution, and that has to come from within.
I wish the nations without borders crowd would understand that we don't pull everyone else up to our standard of living, we sink to theirs. Perfect Communism where everyone makes enough money to pay all the new taxes that our government can through at us....I believe in math they call it the lowest common denominator.
"If the Big Corporations lose cheap labor they will move their operations overseas."
I would venture to say the majority of illegals are not employed by "big business." Your local housing contractor probably hires more "illegals" than does your local Walmart.
Drudge has a story about Greece using satelites to spot illegal immigrants. Maybe we need to copy their idea.
If the Supreme Court says it's ok to take your land if someone else can generate more tax revenue than you do, then it must be against the law to hire someone who won't pay income tax.
bravo....
I can agree with your proposals.
well thank you...
Excellent response. The stakes are very high. I think this issue will make or break the chances for a Republican President in 2008, and at this point, I see very little chance for any Republican candidate going on record as strongly against illegal immigration. This means, of course, a regressive Democrat President (Gore or Hillary?) trying to raise taxes, pack the Federal Judiciary with pinko judges and cripple our economy by sucking up to the tree-huggers.
I'm trying my best.
My buddy is misguided and refusing to give him up.
He knows I'll call, and that includes but wouldn't be limited to the IRS and INS.
I know its some Long Island company. One of the after effects of this, is that if this company is cutting costs using illegal labor, either as a hammer to drive down wages on Americans, or as a outright replacement, other competitors will also be forced to do the same creating a forward cyclical effect.
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