Posted on 09/24/2005 2:11:22 PM PDT by mwfsu84
Listening to a conservative radio talk show today, I heard the host bash Bush and the GOP on their lax immigration policies. He stated that this issue threatened to tear the GOP apart. And he isn't the first person to make that prediction.
I'm a staunch Republican who would hate to see such a dire prediction come true. I also admit in many ways I share Bush's views on the subject. Since he has done a poor job defending his views, I'd like to explain my own. Let's have a discussion and see if we can find some common ground. Or perhaps I am misinformed on the subject, in which case, I'd appreciate your input. I'd like to find some common ground...because I don't want this issue to destroy the conservative movement. Only civil responses, please. I didn't come here to fight.
I've always believed that America should be open to anyone who wants to work hard, live in peace. And the vast majority of immigrants who cross our southern border fit that description. I know several small business owners who hire them - both legally, by the way. They say they can't find Americans do the jobs they hire immigrants for. And these owners are extremely pleased with the immigrants' work ethic. They bust their tails and never complain.
Hispanic immigrants, for the most part, place a high value on their families. That's why many of them come here. A high percentage of them are practicing Catholics.
In my view, these are not the kind of people we should be turning away.
As I understand it, those who oppose illegal immigration do so for the following reasons:
1. It's in violation of the law.
2. Illegal immigrants use up services they don't pay for - schools, health care, etc.
3. Open borders leave us vulnerable to terrorists.
4. Many immigrants are violent criminals.
There is some validity to all of these arguments. Here are my responses.
1. Most of the immigrants here are in violation of the law. But like Prohibition in the 1920's, or the 55 mile an hour speed limit, it's a law that can't be effectively enforced.
We share an 1800 mile border with Mexico. What kind of barrier - physical or human - would possibly suffice to seal us off?
2. It's true that many Hispanics use services they didn't pay for. And I would hold their employers accountable for that. Employers should be the ones to report immigrants, taking out taxes from their payrolls. If not, the government should shut those businesses down, or fine them severely.
3. Open borders leave us vulnerable to terrorism. While I agree with this to an extent, I'd be more worried of terrorists crossing our border with Canada...a much longer border than the one with Mexico, by the way.
As I see it, there are two ways we can fight terrorists. We can seal off our borders, which is a defensive move. Or we can go on the offenisve, as we're doing in Afghanistan and Iraq right now. But we can't do both. Doing both would be cost prohibitive.
I would suggest the reason we haven't suffered a major terrorists attack in this country in over four years - despite our open borders - is because our strategy of going on the offensive is working.
4. Many illegal immigrants are violent criminals. I have no doubt this is true, but I'd like to know what the percentage is. As I said before, I believe the vast majority of individuals don't fit this description.
Hispanics are already the largest minority in America. Who they vote for in the future will determine which party stays in power.
A recent example was of a friend of mine, he worked in landscaping.
His boss wanted him to take a big paycut, when they didn't work it out, his boss fired him and replaced him with an illegal alien who will do the same work but at an illegal wage (belown minimum wage).
The other workers saw what happened and all accepted pay cuts rather then risk being replaced by illegal aliens.
"Hispanics are already the largest minority in America. Who they vote for in the future will determine which party stays in power."
And that alone is the bottom line now isn't it. Appeasement.
How about one constructed by the illegal imigrants we catch?
I'm in the discussion and share the desire that this issue not split the movement. In Illinois, I don't think it will split conservatives. Most Oberweis supporters would support Rauschenberger in November and vice versa.
I'll say more later when I have time.
Ping
Why Bayourod, I see you also operate under an alias.
Fantastic example of why the powers that be have ZERO interest in immigration reform. The lure of an unlimited pool of cheap labor outweighs everything else.
Fining the employers is reactive; The aliens commit the first crime, (illegal entry), and then the businesses piggyback on top of that by hiring them. It's like punishing someone for receiving stolen goods, but not trying to catch the thieves.
Our friend from Russia arrived last night. Between jet lag and culture shock she's pretty well wiped out for a day or two.
Of course the government shuld round up the illegals...but the plantation owners MUST be shut down as well. We need to separate illegal aliens from their income.
This conservative will not vote for the Republican ticket again unless they get serious about the immigration issue.
It is ruining our country. I live outside the US and on my yahoo page the US immigration lottery is a frequent pop up.
My god..how stupid can we be to allow completely unknown, trash, criminal and terrorists to enter our country at will. At the same time I have friends who are US Green card holders struggling with citizenship..people who have lived in the US for 30 years. Legitimate Asian business associates denied tourist visas. Educated foreigners look at our government as completely crazy..then the Mayor of NO comes on and they are sure. They don't understand that we have three or four levels of Govt in the US..
The level of immigration is a clear and present danger to the future of the US. You seem to take the WSJ view of immigration, but hate to tell you, your view of Hispanic immigrants being strong in terms of family values and being mostly ACTIVE Catholics is far off. I grew up in California, and the Barrios were and still are areas of decay, a very juvinile underculture has developed in these areas that have destroyed many neighborhoods because of crime and drugs in California as places to live in its wake. You need to get a clear dose of reality, and not what trash like the WSJ tell people to think.
The net impact of immigrants for most Americans today amount to this, stagnant wage growth, increase of rent/housing prices, increase of tax burden, a decay of local and state services.
But ALL illegal aliens are criminals. By entering the country without going through customs, they are breaking our laws.
Google MS13.
The employers enable the illegals to remain in the US, and in many cases, to come to the US. Those who employ illegals are no better than drug dealers, and should be treated as such.
Hey, Bayourod, how you been?
here are a few simple ideas...if americans support open borders for law abiding transient or migratory or immigrant workers then let's have a public referendum on the subject...if that turns out to be true then let's let an agreed upon number of immigrants into our country on a few simple conditions
1. They submit fingerprints and dna as well as pass a background check.
2. They enter the country legally through a checkpoint set up at any of the normal border crossings.
3. They agree to a probationary status during which time they forfeit their right to remain in the United States if they commit any felony or a set number of misdemeanors in a given time period.
Employers will withhold taxes on them just like any other citizen. Employers will pay them at least the minimum wage just like any other citizen.
To those not registered through the legal channels:
make it a crime to rent or sell real estate to illegals
do not allow them to open bank accounts or conduct any business in the United States
Actively engage the community by offering rewards for the successful arrest and deportation of illegals
pass any legislation necessary to make it impossible to live in the US outside of the system including seizure and sale of any known assets within the United States (with the proceeds going to the offendor minus the cost of deportation. The money can be sent to the bank of their choice in their home country and will be available to them as soon as they get off the plane. This way, legal law abiding immigrants will have no problem going through the system and the only ones coming across the borders will be those with criminal records and bad intentions. It should be relatively simple in my opinion and would get rid of the entire subculture that circumvents minimum wage laws and taxes.
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