[lawgirl]

I totally agree apackof2--if a man doesn't have the strength to lead into a conversation to ask you out, how is he going to have the strength to lead a marriage?

I can identify with this conundrum-I'm an attorney, drive a cute little BMW and when guys find out they totally shut me out. The Bimmer is the only thing I have in the world that's a sign of wealth- it's my dream car and it's not new.

[apackof2]

I totally agree apackof2--if a man doesn't have the strength to lead into a conversation to ask you out, how is he going to have the strength to lead a marriage?

Thank you as I repeated in post #43

[FOG724]

I totally agree apackof2--if a man doesn't have the strength to lead into a conversation to ask you out, how is he going to have the strength to lead a marriage?

So what is wrong with you leading the family? You have assumed the traditional male role as soon as you chose that career. Now you want your cake and eat it too? That is not fair to the men.

The outcome of modern feminism is that while women were fighting to obtain equal rights with men they did not allow men to have equal rights with them.

[tet68]

drive a cute little BMW

You're coming up, I remember when you first started posting here and were trying for that coveted freeper ticket to the
2000 convention.
You had my vote!

Good luck for the future.

[DarthVader]

It sounds like you are dealing with men who are very insecure with themselves and their manhood.

[thoughtomator]

As a lawyer, you shouldn't be surprised that men, confronted with a playing field stacked heavily against them, are less willing to be aggressive - at least those not so highly placed as to be above the law. Did you hear about the woman who saved some man's sperm from oral sex, impregnated herself, and got a court to force the man to pay child support?

[arthurus]

I'm an attorney, drive a cute little BMW and when guys find out they totally shut me out.

Maybe your attorneyness has just a tad to do with the social isolation. Men these days tend to be gunshy what with the tendency for women to marry then after a certain length of time, (often short) file and strip the husband. The judicial system guarantees that the man doesn't have a chance when that happens. And a man is going to go for a woman attorney??? If a women aspires both to wifehood and to the bar she better get married before she graduates or limit her field to other sharks.

[FastCoyote]

"if a man doesn't have the strength to lead into a conversation to ask you out, how is he going to have the strength to lead a marriage? "

Well, and I say this helpfully, you may be intimidating even to a strong man. And there are a lot of strong but quiet men who wouldn't approach a lawyer, but would be quite serviceable if they were given the hint that they were expected to lead.

But just in a general sense, why would I be so foolish as to try and approach a female lawyer, who right away I will suspect will be 1) argumentative 2) career oriented, 3) liberal and out to defend the has-beens?

Which is not meant to be a reflection on you, but a reflection on the stereotype.

[Polybius]

I'm an attorney, drive a cute little BMW and when guys find out they totally shut me out. The Bimmer is the only thing I have in the world that's a sign of wealth- it's my dream car and it's not new.

O.K., I'll say it straight out. If I were single, I would be running in the opposite direction too.

Let's analyze the situation from my own personal point of view.

So, you have worked hard, have gotten a good education and have a high earning potential. No problems there.

From the photo in your home page, you're awfully cute. No problems there.

You drive a vintage BMW. No problems there.

You are an attorney and you advertise the fact on your car's vanity license plate. BIG PROBLEM!.

A large percentage of American marriages end in divorce. That's just the way it is nowadays. As it is, the legalities of marriage are already stacked against the man. No matter what a man does or does not do, if the marriage ever goes on the rocks, he will lose his house, he will lose at least 50% of everything he ever earned, he will probably lose his kids and he will be paying alimony for quite a while..........Oh, and don't forget the legal fees which the man will pay, both his and hers.

And all of that is with the average woman with the average divorce attorney.

"Now, if it ever comes to that", the man imagines, "what would happen to me in the divorce court system if my wife were an attorney representing herself pro bono for as long as she wants to go after me?"

Why would any sane man, other than a male attorney with the ego to think he can compete with you in divorce court, ever put himself in such a potential situation?

My advice to you would be to initially keep your attorney status on low profile.

Don't scare them off before they have a chance to get to know you.

Lose the "LawGirl" vanity plate. If there is one thing that scares off people more than lawyers, it is lawyers that go out of their way to tell everyone they are lawyers.

"But", you said on another post, "you can't penalize a woman for being an attorney."

Well, actually, you can. In social situations, you can penalize anybody for any reason you please.

Life ain't fair.

Right know, I think that men are been scared off by your advertised attorney status before they ever get to know you. You can say you are in "consumer affairs" and not go into details. Try keeping occupations totally in the background for a few dates so men can actually get to know you before they are hit with the Attorney Panic.

[Mr. Jeeves]

if a man doesn't have the strength to lead into a conversation to ask you out, how is he going to have the strength to lead a marriage?

You've gotten a lot of replies to this line, most of them negative.

But I think you are right on.

In fact, the FReeper Wuss Brigade from the divorce threads would do well to tattoo this saying in reverse on their foreheads, so they can read it every morning while they are shaving and remind themselves of their obligations as men.

Your biggest problem is that you are living in the wrong part of the country. A female lawyer in a red BMW communicates something very different in Wisconsin than it would, say, here in the San Francisco Bay Area. You wouldn't stand out or send a negative message around here at all - just about every single woman drives an expensive foreign car. ;)

[HitmanLV]

Hey, I worked in large corporate law firms in nyc for most of the 1990s into the 2000s. I know many women who practiced law and overwhelmingly they were either in poor marriages (mostly because of neglect), divorced (mostly because of neglect), or alone and no/few prospects.

I said elsewhere on this thread that a lot of men don't want to humor the serious time demands of a career galpal or mate. I don't blame them - I don't want to, either.

Most men know enough to know when they find out what you do that you won't be around often (that is, you won't be around for him). That may or may not be unfair, but it is true just the same.

And even if it is unfair, men can get away with it. You're competing for sexual attention with many, many women who are attractive, young, fit and with traditional time schedules. All else being equal (looks, demeanor, personality), most men will reject the woman who is undependable (because she never knows exactly how late she will be working, is prone to suddenly canceling on plans or vacations because or work, etc) in favor of a woman who is more dependable when it comes to that kind of stuff.

One 'partner track' woman at my firm was very attractive and married, but worked very often and very hard. Too many late nights at the office meant ordering a crappy meal out. In time she wasn't nearly as attractive as she once was. We suddenly found out that her hubby left her for a younger and attractive (though not as attractive as she was at her peak) woman who worked for him (different field).

While most felt bad for her, I didn't. The truth was she terribly neglected her spouse so he replaced her with someone who wouldn't neglect him. I applaud that move, actually, whether it's a man or a woman who does the replacing - neglectful, bad spouses shouldn't be rewarded, they should be replaced.

So she got the career she wanted, and he got the spouse he wanted. Ultimately it's fair, even if it's unpalatable. One of my golden rules of life is 'everyone tends to get what they deserve, give or take a bit.' That's what happened in their case. I lost track of her but when I left the firm, she had no mate and no takers, and was negative about relationships. Sad thing is, even if she hit the gym and restored her looks, it wouldn't be enough. She just isn't selling what most men are buying.

[Betis70]

>>I'm an attorney, drive a cute little BMW and when guys find out they totally shut me out. The Bimmer is the only thing I have in the world that's a sign of wealth- it's my dream car and it's not new.

Z3? Z4? Or maybe a 3-series 'vert? I used to have a 6-series before I got rear-ended. I personally like those mid-80s BMWs. Solid machines.

I would think it would be fairly easy for a female car enthusiast to meet a nice male car enthusiast. It is usually so male-dominated, that the few single women I've seen at car shows (and such), generally get a lot of attention.

[Utilizer]

It has been My experience that 'women of means' tend to look down their noses at men who make less than they do or are perceived to be much further down the social scale than they hold themselves to be. Most men just want a life partner, and these women are all too often holding a get-out-of-town card very close. How can a man trust that such a one will be there at home at the end of a hard day's work, let alone that she would be willing to commit to a lifetime of togetherness when clearly she is interested in what the business world can offer instead?

A man likes to know that he can provide for his family and that he will be respected and looked up to for being a good provider, husband, and father, and will be there for the long run. Too often, women throw off the attitude that they can do just fine without the man there, so what makes you think that that is somehow an incentive for a man to pursue such a one? If he is looked down upon, then there really is no reason to continue on when you think about it. Who wants to expend all their efforts upon a relationship and an individual who in all likelihood is just going to move on as soon as she thinks it is just too much effort to make the relationship or marriage work? Especially when she casually discounts the male's importance in her life?