Posted on 09/15/2005 10:46:04 AM PDT by conserv13
"What's up with your shirt?"
Those are the words a former senior at Fleming Island High School remembers hearing as he walked from his fifth-period algebra class toward the gym. The 18-year-old, who is not being identified due to his family's concerns of safety, had just taken off his Dixie Outfitter T-shirt, exposing a highly offensive shirt.
"What about it?" replied the 18-year-old, skinny and white.
"Well, you know it's racial," said a black student, now in a group confronting the 18-year-old.
"Yeah. So?"
The undershirt the white student wore had a confederate flag on the front with the words "Keep it flying." On the back, a cartoon depicted a group of hooded Klansmen standing outside a church, waving to two others who had just pulled away in a car reading "Just married."
Two black men in nooses were being dragged behind.
Upset by the shirt, a 17-year-old black student hit the white student in the head. A crowd of about 100 students gathered to watch the Aug. 29 fight before authorities intervened.
(Excerpt) Read more at jacksonville.com ...
I would not have punched him but then I'm a girl and not a young teen full of pee and vinegar. The tee shirt idiot will learn his lessons in due time when he goes into the Marines.
ping
"How about a t-shirt that says "I support our troops when they shoot their officers?" Is that protected speech?"
Not the situation described. Personally, I have never encountered that t-shirt. I'd certainly have words to say to any creep who was wearing one anywhere near me. However, since that shirt does not represent a threat to me or to any class I belong to, I would probably keep it at words.
we either have free speech or we don't we don't
We don't.
Never did, never will.
It all depends on what side you might be on. If on the winning side you can say what you want. The loosing side has to obey the thought police.
For example this forum. Say something Anti Semitic or use the “N” word and see how long you last. (save the zot, I’m trying to make a point)
If on a “storm front” kind of forum the rules are a bit different. Say something pro Israel and you get your arse stomped into the ground.
Presently in the bulk of America, Neo-cons rule. You must be pro Israel, anti abortion, pro gun, pro Christian, and anti tax. You’ll get along quite well.
If in a crowd of “Blue State” folks things are different. You need to whine lots, cry lots, be anti gun, pro tax, pro spend, defend gays and abortion, defend any perverted deviant behavior, (my bias is showing I guess) and you’ll get along fine.
It all depends on where you are at and who has the most muscle.
This dumb kid went looking for a fight, found one, didn’t have enough muscle to win.
Bad move on his part.
"This Sergeant Major would not have done anything to the kid. "
Did you miss the part where the story said he was joining the Marines. I doubt very seriously if the Sergeant Major would be as tolerant of a Marine wearing that shirt as you seem to think.
I so want to be a fly on the wall for his short and painful Marine career. It ain't gonna be pretty if he doesn't wise-up really quick.
The intent of the "fighting words" concept is as an acceptable defense for the Government when it limits free speech. It is not intended to be and is not (necessarily) a legally acceptable defense for assault.
She was kinky ;)
You're right -- the Sgt. Maj. probably wouldn't do anything. But you can believe the NCO's would....
I had a somewhat similar situation in my unit once with a white Marine putting up racist stuff in his NCO room. Some of the black NCO's complained, the kid was told to take it down, but wouldn't because he claimed a "free speech" right.
Anyway, he came to see me (the XO) one day because he'd apparently been threatened by some other Marines that he'd get the crap beaten out of him if he didn't take it down. He told me the whole story, and asked that we protect him. I told him I didn't see the need for any protection, but that he ought to be really careful walking down the steps from the barracks because he might slip and get badly hurt.
His jaw dropped, and he then went in to talk to the CO. He ratted me out as basically endorsing him getting pummelled. The CO listened, then told him that he agreed with me that the stairs were slippery and that he should be careful. The kid got the message, and that stuff came down.
We don't tolerate that stuff in the Corps, and there are plenty of extra-judicial ways of handling it. A good ass-kicking may be a nice start.
So, now it is "legal" to assault someone? Hmm. I missed that one.
Free speech advocates never cite the difference between government control and business control of speech. Similar to the backlash the dipsie chicks complained about. I don't know how that is relevant here.
All citizens have right to freedom from assault- no matter how offensive they are.
Posters here are overlooking what really happened here. There needs to be an objective approach to this story- remove the "reason" his shirt was offensive and you'll see what I mean.
If I haven't already said so, thank you for your service.
As an aside, Dixie Outfitters makes some awesome shirts - I have several, many kids at our local schools wear them, and I even see the CBF on cars driven by blacks.
Either we have freedom of expression (no matter how stupid or inappropriate) or we don't.
Actually, I suspect that his enlistment may be revoked when word of this reaches the Marines.
The Marines will be good for him. He sounds like he's has youthful errr...ignorance. Marines will turn him into a real man. Plus he'll meet different kinds of black people and I assume that the whole race thing falls away pretty quickly during the three months at Parris Island.
The fighting words doctrine classifies a certain sort of speech that falls outside the traditional limits of the First Amendment. The idea is that the words are so personally offensive to a reasonable person that they constitute an immediate breach of the peace for no just cause, and are therefore prohibited.
However, It does NOT give anyone license to commit assault, as so many here seem to (or want to) believe.
Great point. The school wasn't aware of the shirt until the assault occured. They couldn't have stopped him from entering the school because he hid it under another shirt until he was inside.
I strongly agree that schools should prohibit anything offensive. Kids are too young to know that what they say and do impacts others. Giving them the autonomy to wear whatever they want is asking for trouble.
I still don't think the kid should have been punched.
Generally, race relations in the military are much better than in the civilian world, but the guy who was causing trouble in my unit was a corporal with a few years in. Some people require a more direct approach.
I hope not. Otherwise, he seems like he won't do much but twiddle his thumbs and keep calling himself a 'red neck'.
"Fighting words" are not protected.
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