Posted on 07/15/2005 11:29:25 AM PDT by nypokerface
JACKSON, Miss. - A Christian adoption agency that receives money from Choose Life license plate fees said it does not place children with Roman Catholic couples because their religion conflicts with the agency's "Statement of Faith."
Bethany Christian Services stated the policy in a letter to a Jackson couple this month, and another Mississippi couple said they were rejected for the same reason last year.
"It has been our understanding that Catholicism does not agree with our Statement of Faith," Bethany director Karen Stewart wrote. "Our practice to not accept applications from Catholics was an effort to be good stewards of an adoptive applicant's time, money and emotional energy."
Sandy and Robert Steadman, who learned of Bethany's decision in a July 8 letter, said their priest told them the faith statement did not conflict with Catholic teaching.
Loria Williams of nearby Ridgeland said she and her husband, Wes, had a similar experience when they started to pursue an adoption in September 2004.
"I can't believe an agency that's nationwide would act like this," Loria Williams said. "There was an agency who was Christian based but wasn't willing to help people across the board."
The agency is based in Grand Rapids, Mich., and has offices in 30 states, including three in Mississippi. Its Web site does not refer to any specific branch of Christianity.
Stewart told the Jackson Clarion-Ledger that the board will review its policy, but she didn't specify which aspects will be addressed.
The Web site says all Bethany staff and adoptive applicants personally agree with the faith statement, which describes belief in the Christian Church and the Scripture.
"As the Savior, Jesus takes away the sins of the world," the statement says in part. "Jesus is the one in whom we are called to put our hope, our only hope for forgiveness of sin and for reconciliation with God and with one another."
Sandy Steadman said she was hurt and disappointed that Bethany received funds from the Choose Life car license plates. "I know of a lot of Catholics who get those tags," she said.
She added: "If it's OK to accept our money, it should be OK to open your home to us as a family."
Bethany is one of 24 adoption and pregnancy counseling centers in Mississippi that receives money from the sale of Choose Life tags, a special plate that motorists can obtain with an extra fee.
Of $244,000 generated by the sale of the tags in 2004, Bethany received $7,053, said Geraldine Gray, treasurer of Choose Life Mississippi, which distributes the money.
"It is troubling to me if they are discriminating based on only the Catholics," Gray said.
If you were talking about the Assumption, that would apply. This topic however does not, because the things you noted are obvious and well covered in scripture.
"...honor one's father and mother. Now, what most people don't know about that commandment is that in Hebrew it literally reads, "Glorify your father and mother."
If it does, why do the Jews translate it, "honor."
I do not agree with your rationale. When the Apostle Paul penned those words, much scripture was not written yet. Teaching from the living Apostles was what was available.
Nowhere will you find oral teaching adding to scripture or supplanting it.
More to my original post... to say Mary draws people to her son is not found in scripture. To say that Mary can actually hear whatever you pray when you address her is not found in scripture. To say that even if she could hear you, that she will do something about it, that she has a power to do anything about it, that Jesus will always do everything she asks... no where to be found in scripture. And if someone taught these things at sometime, then they have simply added to what scripture teaches... based on what?! Nothing biblical. Every word of the Savior may not have been recorded, but to make up some and then teach them or act on them as if they are true is not Christianity.
nm, apparently you thought my post was for you. It was not. Your example was sweet and I'm truly happy for your joy with your own children, but making a practice and doctrine out of your own experience is not Christianity. Scripture does not need to state the obvious, but neither should you add to it your own experiences and then elevate them to a doctrine. best, ampu
The previous poster said to ask Abraham to take a prayer would require purpose because he is not "a currier you wave down like a taxi.". Im asking how that is different than how Catholics use Mary?
It was on Mary's cue, that God began his public ministry. It's manifest, that she holds the deep concerns of her Son. At the banquet she said the same thing as is found in Matt 17, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!". The 2 are one in Spirit.
John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
Now if Abraham saw Jesus's day, can you tell us why Mary would not see your day?
" The fact is you should not pray to anyone but God *even if that prayer is for intersession*..."
What is prayer, are you not talking to God? Is a prayer thread forbidden?
Not sure about the rest of your post. Perhaps you are addressing someone elses comments there?
ampu
You didn't read and understand all the posts, that includes considering the obvious. The reasons are given there.
Well, most Anglican priests do, at least
Things like that just don't happen once. They expose a general truth. Unless your a literalist and think that only Abraham has that ability. It says folks in Heaven are alive and can see and hear from Earth according to God's will. John 9 extends it. The rest of the post was supposed to conntain your ?, and my reply from a previous post. I grabbed the wrong one. This is the reply.
The prayer to Mary, asks for God's grace. Whould God deny the request from both, the prayee and His own mom? What is a prayer thread for?
>>nm, apparently you thought my post was for you<<
No, I thought it was on a discussion forum for everyone.
>>but making a practice and doctrine out of your own experience is not Christianity. Scripture does not need to state the obvious, but neither should you add to it your own experiences and then elevate them to a doctrine.<<
I'm sorry if you do not agree with this but common sense says that not every single moment or emotion in Christ's life is stated in scripture. Did Jesus urinate? It isn't in the Bible is it? Mary acted like a mother and still does. I don't state that Jesus having bodily functions is doctrine and I don't state that Mary acting maternal is doctrine, you did. I just say that it's common sense. I leave the doctrine to the experts.
Some things are just without saying if one believes that Jesus was human with a human mother.
I agree that Mary the mother of Jesus, as opposed to the mother of God, since God always was and always will be, was a very special person. I’m not sure what you mean by “cavalier”?
Matthew 12:47-49 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV)
47Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."
48He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers.
Christ had by far the most special role of all. I think we agree that Christ is God and is the messiah predicted by the Jewish prophets? Would you agree that without the blood sacrifice of Christ that all else is totally without effect to bring about redemption and salvation?
." Everything about Mary, everything that makes her and her place in God's plan different from ours, is only because of God's grace to her. Mary is entirely a product of God's tender, loving grace. I agree. Mary is very special and unique in God’s plan for salvation. Through her physical body God provided the complete sacrifice for our sins. Mary is the mother of the God man who gave his life on the cross so that we may have everlasting life. Those of us who place our faith in Christ and accept Gods free gift of salvation will have everlasting life.
That is correct .... ORAL teaching. Again you prove my point.
To say that Mary can actually hear whatever you pray when you address her is not found in scripture.
Jesus' unique role as the only God-man does not mean that nobody else gets to pray for us. This is clear if you read 1 Tim. 2:1-4, in which Paul says that we should all pray for everybody. So in the very same passage that Paul describes Jesus as the one Mediator, he also says that we should all pray and intercede for others. This is what Mary and the other heavenly saints do for us, just as people down here on earth do.
When you ask another Christian here on earth to pray for you, you are asking an earthly saint to intercede on your behalf. When you ask Mary to pray for you, you are doing the exact same thing, only it is a heavenly saint instead. Protestants ask earthly saints to pray for them; Catholics simply broaden this to all of the family of God and ask out heavenly brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us as well as our brothers and sisters here on earth.
In fact, we know they pray for us already because, if you read Revelation 5:8, you will see the twenty-four elders (who represent the leaders of the people of God in heaven) offering to God the prayers of the saints. Thus we have the heavenly saints offering to God the prayers of the earthly saints. Thus we only ask our heavenly brothers and sisters to do what they are already anxious to do on our behalf, just as our earthly brother and sister Christians wish to pray for us whenever we are in need.
No- no no no...This is not at all what I meant.
I am a Christian and I think a Hindu adoption agency should be able to exclude those who aren't Hindu. When I said 'standard' you can read that as 'private policy.'
I am fine with a Catholic agency not working with me because I'm evangelical- if that is there standard. Am I saying that my beleifs are substandard? Not at all.
By the way, I work very closely with many Catholic ministries as a pro-life missionary. If I didn't agree with their statement of faith on the immorality of birth control, I would not be allowed to serve as a mentor in their program. More power to them! I do agree with the statement, but if I didn't I certainly wouldn't be claiming that they are bigots. Now, I think a lot of pro-birth control protestant women would make fabulous mentors, but I'm not advocating they change their standards. If protestants don't like it, they can volunteer at a mentoring program that will have them.
I am not impugning Catholics at all. I resent the implication that I have done so.
As a cradle Episcopalian, I have yet to meet an Episcopalian Clergyman who believes in Transubstantiation. Although,I have met a few who didn't believe in much of anything, unfortunatly.
There was one in a nearby Parish who went Catholic but he had been a "closet" Catholic for a long time anyway. I never met him personally however.
I intend to move over to the Reformed Episcopal Church myself. The Apostacy in my Church is more than I can stand.
"Men have crowded all her glory into a single phrase, 'the Mother of God'. No one can say anything greater of her or to her, though he had as many tongues as there are leaves on the trees . . ."
Martin Luther .... 1529
The simple gospel fact is that Jesus had a mother and that that mother had a mission in the plan of Salvation. In our human history there would have been no Fatherhood of God without the Motherhood of Mary, for God became man in the normal way of men through a mother. Had He been only a man who lived and died and was forgotten then she too could be ignored and forgotten.
But the Jesus who was born of Mary expanded into mankind, making Mary the mother of mankind. Jesus is Christianity - Mary, the mother of Christianity.
Anyone who honestly considers this basic Christian truth can never say Mary is irrelevant, for nothing that mattered to Jesus can be irrelevant.
And Mary mattered to Jesus. The person who sets his life on being one with Jesus, of following His teaching and imitating Him oftentimes overlooks the very first act of Jesus in the plan of Redemption: He first gave Himself to Mary.
And in the end, from the cross, He gave her to us.
----I agree that Mary the mother of Jesus, as opposed to the mother of God, since God always was and always will be, was a very special person. I’m not sure what you mean by “cavalier”?----
Whoops...
God = Three Persons (Father, Son + Holy Spirit) in One Nature (Divine)
Jesus = One Person (God the Son) with 2 Natures (both Human and Divine)
Mary = Mother of Jesus = Mother of A Divine Person (Son) = Mother of God
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm#II"
Cheers!
Frank
By Protestant standards, saying the Lord's Prayer as Christ commanded is repetitive prayer.
Does anyone on this thread tell a loved one "I love you" everyday? Aren't they concerned that it is repetitive and meaningless?
Well said, J.
I don't think so. Would you elaborate so that I don't reply to a cryptic phrase and get myself in the weeds unnecessarily.
best, ampu
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