Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 3

Link to previous thread ^ | 6/23/05 | freepers

[stlnative]

Previous FR Natalee Holloway Threads...

Natalee Holloway - Extended Thread 2
Posted on 06/20/2005 12:14:36 AM CDT by brigette
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1426433/posts

Natalee Holloway - Extended Thread 1
Posted on 06/16/2005 11:43:44 AM CDT by brigette
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1424188/posts

Another Twist in Holloway Disappearance
Posted on 06/14/2005 11:24:41 AM CDT by PBRSTREETGANG
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1422593/posts

Ala. Teen's Mom: Men 'Know What Happened' (Natalee Holloway)
Posted on 06/13/2005 4:01:55 AM CDT by bd476
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1421756/posts

Natalee's body found... (false report)
Posted on 06/11/2005 1:05:50 PM CDT by kcvl
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1420967/posts

Holloway Not Only American Missing In Aruba
Posted on 06/08/2005 1:25:36 AM CDT by MassRepublicanFlyersFan
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1418606/posts

Natalee Holloway (Aruba) 5 Men Now in Custody
Posted on 06/07/2005 3:35:36 PM CDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1418322/posts

Aruba Info...

Full Aruba Island Maps
http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif (BEST MAP)
http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/islands/ar/images/aruba2002.gif (good map but blurry)
http://www.aruba-tours.com/art/arubaattmap1.gif

Oranjestad Aruba Street Map
http://www.caribline.com/islands/ar/images/oranjestad2002.gif

San Nicolas Street Map
http://www.caribline.com/islands/ar/images/sannicolas2002.gif

Hotel Location Maps in the California Lighthouse Area
http://www.arubaluxurycondos.com/images/arubamap1.gif
http://www.frommers.com/images/destinations/maps/jpg/176_resortareaaccomodations.jpg (NICE MAP)

Hotel Pictures - 
http://www.frommers.com/images/destinations/maps/jpg/176_resortareaaccomodations.jpg (Map)

Aruba Marriott Resort & Stellaris Casino - #1 on Map
LG Smith Boulevard #101
http://marriott.com/propertyimages/a/auaar/phototour/auaar_phototour22.jpg?Log=1

Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club - #2 on Map
LG Smith Boulevard #99
http://marriott.com/propertyimages/a/auaao/phototour/auaao_phototour01.jpg?Log=1

Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort - #3 on Map (both buildings are the Holiday Inn)
http://phototour.ichotelsgroup.com/hotelimages/AUAAN/WELCM_EXTR_02_D.jpg

Playa Linda Beach Resort - #4 on Map
http://www.playalinda.com/enghome.html

Manchebo Beach Area Map
http://www.mapsworldwide.com/mwwlive/itm_img/3897075008sam.gif

Aruba Beach Location Maps
http://www.arubariba.com/ArubamapBeachMap1.jpg
http://www.arubatravelinfo.com/maps/arubabeachmap.jpg (nice detailed map)

Aruba Township Location Map
http://www.arubarealestate.com/aruba_map/

Aruba Diving Location Maps
http://www.visitaruba.com/attractions/sunandfun/diving_a.html

Aruba Beach/Site Seeing Pictures
http://www.visitaruba.com/attractions/sunandfun/beaches.html

Aruba/Natalee - Blogs/Boards/Forums/News Feeds
http://bb.visitaruba.com/
http://www.aruba.com/msgbrd/read.php?f=1&i=124287&t=124287&v=t
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/ (Blog) - POPULAR
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/ (Forum) - POPULAR
http://spaces.msn.com/members/amykappel/ (Blogger in Aruba)
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/ (Blog) - POPULAR
http://joranvandersloot.blogspot.com (Blog)
http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005 (Blog - English Version)
http://www.i66.com/ (Natalee Holloway News Feed)

Aruba White/Yellow Pages
http://arubayp.com/

Suspect's Personal Pages or Picture Album Locations
http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14905439&Mytoken=20050613202923

---

Show/Interview TranscriptsTranscript: Van der Sloots Speak Out - On the Record with Greta- Fox News
Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak Out
Thursday, June 23, 2005
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 22, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

Transcript: Natalee's Friends  Go On the Record with Greta- Fox News
Transcript: Natalee's Friends Go 'On the Record'
Wednesday, June 22, 2005
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 21, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

---

Some case info to go along with this map...
(as far as I know this is all correct)

http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif

The Island is 6 to 7 miles deep by about 20 miles long

B-1 = California Lighthouse - where the boys claim they took her first after leaving the Bar.

D-3 = #4 is the location of the 2 Marriott Hotels - where the 2 brothers (and now Joran) claim they dropped Joran and Natalee off after leaving the lighthouse -  the 2 brothers claim they went home to Hooiberg after that.

D-3 = #19 is the location of the Holiday Inn where Natalee was staying.

G-5 = Where the red #2 marker is pointing to is the area that the Carlos & Charlie Bar is located

D-4 = Township of Montana is where Joran lives

F-7/8 = Hooiberg (Haystack Mountain) - The 2 Kalpoe brothers live in this area at the foot of the Haystack Mountian.

C-9 = By the Natural Bridge on the map is the location where the sharks hang out as they are fed at this location. This is the Shark Infested Feeding Area.

E-3 = Wetland in the Bird Sanctuary is the location where they found the Condoms/Condom Wrappers - Duct Tape (looked like black electrical tape to me) - Female Flowered Panties - and a String or Strap from a Bikini or Halter Top.

---

PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD
LARGE PICTURE FREE FOR DIAL UP ISP USERS.

I am asking that everyone either post just a link to the pictures they wish to share or reduce the size of the picture when you use the img src tag.

This will help greatly for us who are on Dial-up.

Examples

Just a link to a picture like this...(this is the simplest method)
http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif

or reduce this image size like this (you need to know HTML to do it this way)

---

I DO NOT HAVE A PING LIST AND I DO NOT WISH TO MAKE ONE

---

Just a reminder that...
THIS IS A NO LARGE
PICTURE POSTING THREAD
(please do not post large pictures on the thread - small pictures are fine as well a links to the pictures)

---

This is a discussion thread about the daily occurrences in the Natalee Holloway Case.
It is located in "Chat" on Free Republic
It is not a thread for bashing Natalee - Natalee's Family or Natalee's Friends.
It also is not an ongoing discussion thread for any other cases.

---

[CitizenM]

I did hear on FOX when Deepak's atty (I believe) was being interviewed that in the Dutch system they might list a whole slew of possible charges. Then they eliminate and focus on the one that can be proven. So that is why all those reasons for holding Paulus vdS are being given.

Also, thank you all for your concern about my son. I was told, by his doctor, after his 4th neurosurgery that "There is no medical reason he should be alive!- and that God must have a special plan for him." Imagine...but he is, and doing very well.

I was hesitant to post that, it happened over 15 years ago. He is in his 30's now, holds a Master's Degree and is working and has his own apt. Although I still have sadness for what he lost, and the plans he had that can never be realized, I am so very, very proud of what he has achieved. Yes, cases like this bring back some rough memories.

[TexKat]

The complicity to kidnapping charge intrigues me. You cannot "kidnap" a dead body. Does this mean that Paul VDS was involved in the crime(s) while Natalee was still alive? If so, what part did he play?

From what and how I have heard the suspicions of PVDS and the rest I am not putting too much weight into it. My understanding is that this is being used in order to hold them.

[hummingbird]

Great tagline!

I adapted it from your post #590...thanks for the inspiration. Beth Holloway is an inspiration as well and I hope and pray her perseverance and faith bear happy fruit.

[CitizenM]

Yes, Varina...I heard two separate interviews of Natalee's friends and both said she introduced herself to Joran. One said she asked him to meet them at C and C's later. The other said she had not heard that particular conversation.

As to forcing her to go with them, I believe most all who saw her with the three boys leaving C and C's said she went willingly. I would think, if she were being forced or kidnapped, she would have struggled and the others would have come to her aid.

What happened after that is the question, but I think Natalee did what a lot of teens do: It was a summer fling, last night on vacation, she wanted to spend time with someone of interest, take it all in, etc. before going home. I also don't feel that Joran had anything to gain by forcing anything. He is a good looking, popular boy...if he wanted "sex" he could (or prob. has) have that relationship with someone there and not someone leaving the next day. It does not make sense that he forced himself on her.

I just feel these were teens acting like teens do. A little fun, petting, hormones acting up a bit. Maybe both should have behaved differently. Joran should have stayed home, as was the rule...Natalee should have just gone with her group back to the hotel. But their youth and exuberance led them a different direction, they let their guard down and focused only on the pleasure of the moment. How many of us have done that at one time or another in our lives? I bet some still do...LOL.

[pamlet]

Ahhh CitizenM... I am sure you are SO proud of your son! Wonderful accomplishments...

Thank you for you post re the case as well. I too feel we shouldn't rush to judgement - something just seems SO strange .. but then it may be something as "simple" as something going wrong then a very stupid coverup..

[texasbluebell]

and I hope and pray her perseverance and faith bear happy fruit.

Oh yes, we all do.

[CitizenM]

Yes, pamlet. I thought that also. I posted yesterday the possibility that Joran and Nat were on the beach, and either fell asleep...he woke, she had left, and he figured she went back to the hotel. So he went home. Lots of kids do that at these resort places. I remember on Spring Break kids would fall asleep on the beaches and I would see them staggering back in in the wee hours of the morning. (I was grown then, never did the spring break myself, nor would let my kids...but I saw it like that).

Or, he woke and she did not. Maybe she did pass out because even though she drank "responsably" as one friend said tonight on O'Reilly, it hit her hard later. So Joran went home, told his dad. Dad got angry that he had sneaked out but went back and Natalee was gone. Maybe they both figured she went to the hotel.

Later, when the news came about her disappearing, they made up the stupid story, because they felt Joran would be suspected of something more, since he was the last to have been seen with her. Stupid, yes...but understandable.

Or, of course like I said tonight...someone stole Natalee, and is framing the VdS family because of some grudge...maybe the father is truly at wit's end because of threats made.

It just seems so unreal that this family, with an obvious nice background, would be involved in some crime they planned. I offered more possibilities yesterday. I think there are so many that do not include Joran or his father commiting a crime against Natalee. But, it is possible the father knows something about the real criminal, and that is why he is being held and has been charged, and it has nothing to do with his son.

Whew. I am ready for bed. I hope I can sleep without nightmares about this. I am sure the mothers of all those teens are having a real problem sleeping without their children in the house and safe at their side. They must all be weeping constantly in the wee hours of the night.

[texasbluebell]

Oh my gosh. What a story.

Sorry that I am in the minority, but this is MHO and I find no fault with others' feelings. (And no, I did not think Michael Jackson was innocent or OJ...so I am not a bleeding heart!) I hope my comments are taken in the perspective I offer them, and not as a challenge. I pray ever so much, and so hard for all the families and children in this horrible situation.

bump

[hummingbird]

What did PVDS mean when he said he "hopes his son stands up to the interogation". I found this a puzzling statement...

Yes, an odd turn of phrase...what are interrogation techniques in Aruba? Is PVDS implying some kind of physical or mental torture? Are Aruban police beyond physically torturing suspects?

Not casting aspersions on the Aruban Police, especially since I know very little about Aruba...just wondering what PVDS meant by hoping his son stood up to the interrogation...literally stand up or metaphorically be able to withstand being under lock and key and interrogated....

[hummingbird]

Beware the "S" word! Heh, heh, heh...let's just call them "Looneyologists."

[hummingbird]

Then the last night the girls/women are there is the night they are given the drug, and assaulted, presumably because if they're leaving the next day, they're less likely to want to pursue charges.

Aruba is looking less and less like an Island Paradise...maybe they are cooking the books on their crime figures, or as in your post, charges aren't pursued by tourists ready to get the heck out of there after a bad experience on their last night. I understand there is a significantly large prison on the island; why would you need such a fortress if there was such little crime...

[bluepistolero]

Yes, it's a beautiful place, and you can walk and drive all over. You can stand in the trees where Stonewall Jackson was shot, and you can walk up roundtop or stand at the top and look down, imagining the charge. You can go into the woods where Lee had his headquarters, and don't miss Devil's den.

[hummingbird]

In civilized society, how does an innocent person not stand up to interogation?

What does Amnesty International (ack!) say about Aruba? Think I'll surf on that...bbl.

[Howlin]

There's that word again: premeditated.

[bluepistolero]

I just love The Tide.

[hummingbird]

And one wonders what constitutes "brutal" to Joran and his Mother?

Multitasking here...still looking for prison conditions in Aruba. Wonder if conditions/interrogations are different for citizens vs. visitors?

Of course, police may be leaning more heavily on Joran considering the impact his activities may have on tourist season and on relations with US.

[hummingbird]

What threads "out there?" I haven't had my fill of unappeasables and malcontents yet today...but I'm getting pretty close!

[Howlin]

Pick anything to do with Bush or Rove; you'll see it.

[hummingbird]

This is a topic that brings all people of good will together, praying and hoping for Natalee to be delivered safely.

Amen.

[hummingbird]

Looked closely at pics & comments but didn't see reference to any libraries or museums/sarc.

D'oh, there wouldn't be gallons of liquor in a library...what WAS I thinking....