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Will the speed of light always be a barrier?
Air and Space Magaine. Vol # 1 March 1978 | March 1978 | Editorial Staff w/ Melvin B. Zistein

Posted on 06/12/2005 6:00:55 PM PDT by vannrox

Light Speed a Barrier?


To go, the children of tomorrow may have had to discover what is believed impossible today -- how to travel faster than light.

Mel Zisfein, deputy director of the national Air and Space Museum, and an aerosynamicist amoung other things, has noted a similarity between the way most people today regard "C," the speed of light, and the way many people a generation or so ago regarded "a", the speed of sound. For this publication, he sketched the illustrations which appear on the following page, and drafted the following...

"Some people used to look at the so-called compressibility effect curves and said that we'll never fly a winged aircraft faster than the speed of sound. As we increase speed from ero, the forces associated with air pressure, like drag, will rise ever faster and tend toward infinity as we approach the speed of sound, which is a barrier we can't pass.

"However, people knew that artillery shells - although not winged aircraft - went faster than the speed of sound, so perhaps there was a chance for airplanes. Subsequently, on October 14 1947, the Bell X-1 flew supersonically, and today, supersonic flight is an everyday occurrence.

"Earlier, people working with the flow of gases through nozzles had run into a similar manifestation of a 'sound barrier'. When a gas, like air, was put through a simple nozzle

...the speed of sound "a", looked like the highest achievable velocity. The more pressure that was applied across the nozzle, the more energy was dissipated in shocks int eh nozzle, leaving the exit velocity no higher than the speed of sound. However the De Laval nozzle was invented...

in which the exit speed could be supersonic.

"Now, some people look at the equations and curves of einstein's special theory of Relativity like the one form mass 'm' (formula to the right).

They notice the similarity in form to the earlier aerodynamic pressure equation and its curve . Some people say we;ll never move faster than "c:, the speed of light. As we increase speed from zero, the mass of any body will rise ever faster and tend toward infinity, as we approach the speed of light, which is a barrier we can't pass.

'There is much evidence to support this position. From where we stand today (1978), exceeding the speed of light appears to be a vstly more difficult endeavor than exceeding the speed of sound. Maybe however, that it is only because we haven't figured out how to do it.

"The basic physical principles are vastly different. But I remain fascinated with the mathematical similarities between the pressure equation and the curve of the sound barrier, and the mass equation and the curve of the light barrier.I just wonder if there is some wa which we will find some day to enable us to drive particles, and perhaps space vehicles, to speeds faster than "c".


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KEYWORDS: alcubierredrive; barrier; bush; democrat; design; education; engineering; exploration; fast; ftl; funding; god; gravity; haroldgwhite; haroldsonnywhite; initative; light; mars; moon; nasa; noise; past; republican; science; slow; sound; space; spaceship; speed; star; travel; trek
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To: Larry Lucido

I spilled Spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.


21 posted on 06/12/2005 6:25:17 PM PDT by EdHallick ("KAAAAAAAAAAHN!" - Capt. James T. Kirk)
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To: vannrox
They notice the similarity in form to the earlier aerodynamic pressure equation and its curve . Some people say we;ll never move faster than "c:, the speed of light. As we increase speed from zero, the mass of any body will rise ever faster and tend toward infinity, as we approach the speed of light, which is a barrier we can't pass.

Yes alot have...the "so called" speed of light barrier will fall and the idea how will most likely come from someone to "dumb" to know it can't be done

22 posted on 06/12/2005 6:25:24 PM PDT by tophat9000 (When the State ASSUMES death...It makes an ASH out of you and me..)
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To: rkhampton
has noted a similarity between the way most people today regard "C," the speed of light, and the way many people a generation or so ago regarded "a", the speed of sound.

I pretty much stopped taking this article serious when I reached the about statement.

Maybe they should have taken a poll and asked the people what the speed of light is.

23 posted on 06/12/2005 6:26:39 PM PDT by edeal
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To: vannrox

not even Scotty can change the laws of physics...


24 posted on 06/12/2005 6:28:05 PM PDT by isom35
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To: isom35
not even Scotty can change the laws of physics...

But Q can.
25 posted on 06/12/2005 6:28:48 PM PDT by boofus
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To: bwteim
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle in which travel occurs at the speed of thought. That'd be fast.

The process of cognition is quite slow when compared to current technology. For instance, a loud sound takes a good fraction of a second before we are aware of it.

Of course what is almost certainly meant by the author is that we could be in a place as soon as we think of it. That would be a neat trick, especially of we are thinking of some place on the other side of the Universe.

26 posted on 06/12/2005 6:28:54 PM PDT by Moonman62 (Federal creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it)
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To: boofus
not even Scotty can change the laws of physics...

But Q can.

And the supreme court will probably try...

27 posted on 06/12/2005 6:29:45 PM PDT by edeal
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To: vannrox

Cherenkov radiation ought to bring the Einstein/Maxwell speed into question. Then there is Goedel. In our equations we like to put t as if that has something to do with reality. Light is a phenom of electromagnetic fields. There are other kinds of fields. The speed of photons may have nothing to do with reality, just our intuitions.


28 posted on 06/12/2005 6:30:26 PM PDT by RightWhale (I know nothing, and less every day)
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To: vannrox
There are questions whether "c" is a constant at all.

I put my money on Einstein. They are still proving his theories true many years after his death. It may have not been a constant during the early stages of development of the universe, but in the fairly steady state we are in I think it is fairly constant, maybe changing a bit every billion years or so.
29 posted on 06/12/2005 6:34:49 PM PDT by microgood
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To: Abcdefg
The speed of my thought is inversely proportional to the amount of Jack Daniel's I've consumed.

WWJD?... Who wants Jack Daniel's?

Heck, I do.

Trajan88

30 posted on 06/12/2005 6:35:11 PM PDT by Trajan88 (www.bullittclub.com)
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To: Moonman62

"what is almost certainly meant by the author is that we could be in a place as soon as we think of it."

Yep. And it would be a neat trick.


31 posted on 06/12/2005 6:35:21 PM PDT by bwteim
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To: Leapfrog

Very funny.


32 posted on 06/12/2005 6:36:04 PM PDT by Red Sea Swimmer (Tisha5765Bav)
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To: vannrox

What would be the speed of sound in the rocket engine exhaust gases at the temperatures and pressures obtaining in rocket engine exhaust? (or at t°, p conditions in the bow shock wave of a flying bullet?- and how would it compare with the velocity of these gases or of the bullet?).


33 posted on 06/12/2005 6:38:42 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: vannrox

What about the Speed of Darkness which was discovered by the secret scientist himself Momus A. Morgus, Esq. ?


34 posted on 06/12/2005 6:39:34 PM PDT by Kokojmudd (Today's Liberal is Tomorrow's Prospective Flying Saucer Abductee)
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To: EdHallick
We need to build a ship entirely of photons

Here's my theory. Build a photon ship with headlights mounted on it. When you reach the speed of light, turn on the headlights. Now you've got light travelling at the speed of light squared. Turns relativity on its head.

35 posted on 06/12/2005 6:41:31 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: vannrox
Courtesy of the late B. Kliban:


36 posted on 06/12/2005 6:46:05 PM PDT by Cloud William (Liberals are the crab grass in the lawn of life.)
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To: boofus
not even Scotty can change the laws of physics...

But Q can.

Huh? he can't even do anything about 007 misusing his latest gadget.

37 posted on 06/12/2005 6:48:16 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. = Voltaire)
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To: GSlob

Why don't we just ask our liberal politicians to pass a law that requires us to travel faster than light. That should work as well as so many other laws they like and I am sure they would be happy to do it. Plus, they would have the added benefit of future monies being thrown at the poor and disadvantaged to make sure they can afford to travel this fast - a "no one left behind" plan.


38 posted on 06/12/2005 6:50:11 PM PDT by rconawa (a rational person)
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To: rconawa

Well, if one could figure out what and how to do with the space so that the speed of light in it increases [somewhat like heating/compressing air in the immediate vicinity (shock wave) of a flying bullet] then superlight speed flight (vs. normal light speed) would become possible.


39 posted on 06/12/2005 6:55:18 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: vannrox

Excuse me but the speed of light is not a barrier. We don't know of anything that can even come close with our technology. (how can a gate be a barrier if you are a thousand miles down the road? )Just a thought.


40 posted on 06/12/2005 6:56:13 PM PDT by fish hawk (I am only one, but I am not the only one.)
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