Posted on 04/15/2005 7:11:19 PM PDT by CHARLITE
I am on the mailing list of several Islamic publications and almost without exception there was veritable glee over the liberal hue and cry from leftists for a more liberal pope.
If you read between the lines, you can very clearly see what these Islamics are hoping for: more moral decay in the already evil and decadent West. This evilness would then be used as the reason for the mass slaughter that lies ahead. Allah has demanded that the evil and sinful Christians be sent to the fires of hell and if Islamics are convinced that all Christians are evil, the followers of Mohammed can kill with a clear conscience.
The Quran already states that “all Christians will be burned in the fire,” but many moderate Muslims sensibly ask, “Why?” These non-violent Muslims must be whipped into shape for the battle, and time is short.
As Mohammed sat scratching out the Quran, he knew his biggest threat was then, and would be in the future, the followers of Jesus--Christians. Mohammed couldn’t just disregard Jesus, however, for he was too important. So he cleverly managed to make only the followers of Jesus evil while elevating Jesus to the rank of a prophet. The paradox is that the man was good, but his followers were bad. This is an interesting and unexplainable conflict.
Mohammed had to convince people that Jesus was not the Son the God. If Jesus was the promised Messiah, there would have been no need for another prophet and no need for Mohammed because the prophecy would have been fulfilled.
Mohammed referred to Christians often and always with venom and hate. This is just a few of the lines from the Quran that refer to Christians: “Allah will tear Christians apart for ascribing partners to him.” “Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my partners that you used to believe in?” “Allah cast fear into the hearts of the disbelieving People of the Scripture. Their home in the Hereafter will be the Fire.”
Mohammed tried to convince the Jews that he was their promised Messiah, but they didn’t believe him. Jews became the hated ones. Jews rejected Mohammed and they quickly felt his wrath. This blind hatred continues to this day. While Islamics hate the Jews, they don’t see the Jews as a collective threat to Islam. Jews are just used for target practice. The war with the Jews is just a prelude for what is to come.
Christians, however, were a lost cause right from the start. Christians had already accepted Jesus as the promised Messiah long before Mohammed was even born. History told Mohammed that Christians were a stubborn bunch. They had been fed to lions, tortured, crucified, beaten, and still, Christianity thrived and grew. Even the powerful Romans could not stop them.
There was a time when Mohammed and his handful of followers hid among Christians from enemies who wanted to kill him. It was during that time that he selectively picked from Christianity those features that he felt suited his purposes and he discarded the rest.
In fact, in the beginning Mohammed was quite fond of Christian monks. He said of them in the beginning of the Quran: "You will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those ... who say: We are Christians; there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly." As time passed, his opinion of the solidly Christian monks and priests changed considerably. Mohammed later told his followers not to listen to them because they would lead them "from Allah's way." Translation: Christians won’t follow me so they are now the enemy.
The seeds of hatred for Christians and Jews were planted early and often in the minds of Muslims.
When many Islamic leaders came to pay homage to Pope John Paul II, the radical element of Islam was outraged. They seemed to say: How dare Islamic leaders show respect to the leader of the enemy! While the pope is the leader of the Catholic Church and not all Christians, many in Islam know that when the final battle begins, Christians will close ranks and they will look to a single leader to guide them. More than likely, it will be the pope. After all, many people believe that every Christian religion is a splinter group of Catholicism. We all believe that Jesus was the Son of God. That belief will unite us.
Islam has no central leader to look to for guidance. It is fragmented and disjointed. In short, Islam has pope-envy.
Islamics know there are not enough Jews in the world to stop them, but Christians, now that is a different story. I have found it fascinating that Mohammed paid little attention to Buddhists and Hindus. Both existed long before Islam. Is it that Mohammed didn’t have much contact with anyone other than Jews and Christians, so they were just ignored by the all-knowing and all-seeing Mohammed? Mohammed seems to have overlooked millions of people who have no desire to follow the teachings of Islam.
Islamic hatred is directed right at the group of people that Mohammed knew would be the people to stand up to Islam and defeat his followers someday: The followers of Jesus Christ. In fact, that defeat has been predicted.
St. Malachy, an Irish Bishop who died in 1148 A.D., left behind a list of the popes to come. He gave them all one identifying line. Historians who have studied St. Malachy’s list have said that he was remarkably accurate. What is unsettling is that there are only two more popes on his list.
The new pope, whose identity is still unknown, has been predicted not only by St. Malachy, but St. Benedict as well. St. Malachy identified the next to last Pope to lead the Catholic Church with the line, “The Glory of the Olive.” St. Benedict stated that this as yet un-elected pope would be from his order, which interestingly is also known as the Olivetans. Frankly, I don’t see a conflict in their predictions. Both stated that this pope would be the one who would make the stand and lead Christians into the final fight against evil--a fight that they predicted Christianity will win.
Centuries ago, Mohammed heard a voice in his head. Whether it was his own voice he heard or that of someone--or something--else, we do not know. What is obvious is that the warning was clear: Beware of the Christians.
I have no doubt that Islamic leaders will be watching to see who is chosen to lead the world’s Catholics and perhaps, ultimately, all Christians. I am sure they are hoping that a weak, liberal pope will take the reins of the only real threat to Islam. A weak pope will allow the decadent West to move even farther from the teachings of Christ.
I also have no doubt that this will not happen. If the cardinals make the wrong choice, it will be corrected just as quickly as it was when they made the wrong choice prior to Pope John Paul II. Humbled, the cardinals will return to bury yet another pope and then pick the correct man that is destined to be pope.
If the end-time is coming, and I have no idea if it is, and the duel prediction of two saints is true, the dye is already cast. The future is already in motion around us and it will be up to the followers of Christ to face the followers of Mohammed. How long it will take and how many will die, I have no idea but I have no doubt as to the outcome. God cast out the devil once. He will do it again, with, or without us.
Comments: dickens502003@yahoo.com
Thank you. But we live in a fallen world and have to do something besides prayer. Perhaps we should pray that God grant us wisdom to find better solutions.
How about you offering some solutions instead of insulting anyone that tries to? eh?
I do disagree with you about everyone "knowing" about the problem. Maybe you live in an enlightened area, but it wasn't until I found FR this past summer that I met anyone that had a clue about Islam. I "thought" I knew a lot because I had read a few books.LOL I have since learned that I knew nothing and it was a few wonderful FReepers who took the time to teach me (thank you USF and Texasblubell)...and yes I am still learning, and sometimes I get carried away with my choice of words.
I sense your frustration at lack of solutions. Mine would take away some of our civil liberties, which I'm sure would not go over well with many in this Country.
I am a Bush supporter, but I don't agree with how he has handled this situation. I also don't necessarily think he "believes" what he said publicly.
Do you have any ideas?
It's a lot easier to recognize the problems, than it is to find the solutions to solve them!
I am not opposed to more controls, but we don't live alone in this world. The world would have to cooperate and so far we have done nothing but piss the world off. UK, France, Italy, Germany and other European countries have large numbers of Muslims (in part brough there by our pressure to create a "multiethinic" society like ours -- a philosophy that has its roots elsewhere, but that's another subject), so they won't go along with that. And with all the Muslims in the world surrounding us in our Fortress, what will that do? We can't "go it alone." That's the kind of thining that got us into this mess to begin with.
Also, you can't outlaw a religion! Christianity was outlawed and persecuted for 300 years and all it did was grow and grow until it finally took over.
You need to read how this thread started before jumping to conclusions.
I have read it, and I don't think the people you are complaining about are wrong either.
I look at this as a 'them or us' scenario, cause that's really how it's going to end up. One side will be obliterated. I prefer our side to not lose.
I can also appreciate your impression that not everyone is fully aware of the magnitude of this threat and the frighteningly few reasonable options we have.
There are people a lot smarter than you and I who are wrecking their brains day and night trying to find a solution. It's a tightrope with very little room for error.
Bottom line is -- we can control and isolate any dangerous element within our society, but not if that is only the tip of an iceberg. Shutting down mosques and placing all Muslims under surveillance will do nothing to stop radical Islam in the world -- it will only make it more radical.
We need to build alliances, strengthen our values, pray, and look at root problems of this radicalization. If you think people know nothing of Islam, they know even less as to the complex mess that started all this.
But keep learning. We all are. Just realize that the world is not as simple as we would like it to be.
It wasn't a transcription error. The section of the Koran in question is very obscure in Arabic, and makes much better sense if read as East Syriac. It apparently is an East Syriac Christian text that got stuck in when the Koran was being 'dictated by the Archangel Gabriel'.
In East Syriac 'hur' is white raisin. It isn't anything in Arabic, and got interpreted by the Muslims (maybe even Mohammed himself) as the magically renewing 'chastely amorous' 'virgins'.
(Incidentally, my Metropolitan is an native speaker of Arabic, and says the Koran is lousy Arabic, not poetic, awkward, hardly the qualities you'd expect from an angelically dictated divinely authored work.)
Even though I may not agree with you on every point, I really appreciate your post and your way of presenting your case.
we can look back in time to when Christians were killing each other in Europe over relatively small differences in theology,
One BIG difference here Elkclan is they may "say" it is being done in the name of Christ, but that is NOT Christianity. Christ teaches to "love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you." No where does Jesus teach for us to hate or kill! Can the same be said of Mohammed? I think not!
I've certainly felt pressure to keep my mouth shut over evolution, abortion and the fact that I don't believe in God. There was constant and overwhelming societal pressure to go to church - though fair enough I wasn't dragged there (except by my mother)
How long ago was this? Sounds like the good 'ol days to me (sorry, I know it must not have been to you) God Bless your mother...maybe that is why, even though you aren't a believer, you are reasonable and not filled with hatred toward Christians. A lot does have to do with where you live. I was raised in Miami and no one I knew went to church, and in the liberal leaning community where I live now, very few go to church.
I wonder when you last visited this Country? Christians are the ONE group that are fair game to bash and insult. In public schools you can't even mention the name Jesus, or Merry Christmas, yet Islam is taught as "History" and students not only learn the 5 pillars, they take on Muslim names and wardrobe etc for school projects. I have a real problem with this double standard. Teach ALL the religions as History, or none of them.
As for evolution....it should be taught as a theory Not a fact! Why not teach both sides? See, I'm a right-wing conservative Christian but I'm reasonable (I prefer that word to tolerant).
I wouldn't want to stop anyone from practicing Islam -I believe people should be free to practice their religion
Pre 9/11 I would have agreed with you. I had no idea what the agenda of Islam was. Now that I know its agenda, I feel it is a threat to the Freedom we have in this country. As I said to kosta50, I don't have any legitimate,legal solutions.
Your solution:
I think we fight fundamentalism and bad religion by being clear, rational, secular and tolerant and we fight the violent promotion of bad religion with effective, well-funded and well thought-out and fair law enforcement.
This sounds good (some of it)...however...having been in law enforcement for 10 years, don't ever count on it being "well-funded, thought out or fair"! Yes, I am cynical. The Criminal Justice System in this Country is a travesty.
if to counter their ways, we restrict our own liberties, THEY have won.
I have had this discussion with someone else here on FR and I somewhat see your point. Personally, I am willing to give up some of my personal liberties for the protection of society, but I know this is a red flag and can get very complicated.
Great ideas...although I don't know that I will ever trust France or want to be aligned with them! But that's a different topic to save for another thread!
I like your idea on another post about praying for wisdom.
But keep learning. We all are. Just realize that the world is not as simple as we would like it to be.
Yes, I learned that on 9/11
Thank you.
Thanks so much for the illuminating comment. The above information is great to know. And, about the confusion between "raisins" and "virgins," all that I know is that it has been explained that way by several scholars. I wouldn't have any way of knowing the accuracy of the claim (that it originally meant "raisins"), but your explanation about the East Syriac vs. Arabic version makes excellent sense to me......but I just LOVE the comments of your metropolitan about how atrocious the Arabic really is!
Thanks so much for your contribution to the ongoing "conversation" concerning what I personally consider to be a very wicked cult.
Char
These folks apparently don't practice what their big chief Mohammed preaches.
Praise God for that!
There are always opportunities to learn more!
Why does islam hate Christianity? Let's try to explain why that might be, by analogy. Remember, islam hates Jews first and foremost; every other religion or belief system qualifies for hatred by islam on a kind of sliding scale. Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, animist, pagan, what have you; all kuffar, all unclean, all infidel, all deserving of nothing but to be burned in hell, beheaded, arms and legs 'smited' - islam has allah's word on it.
Put your Colombo coat and hat on. The 'prophet' just might be a composite of every parasitic arab male who ever lived a nomad survival existence, who robbed, raped, pillaged and slaughtered for a 'living'- who stole not only people and turned them into slaves, but KNOWLEDGE!
The knowledge that is in the koran is obviously plagiarised from numerous sources, much incorrectly transcribed because it was orally transmitted. From Hebrew lore, from the ancients, including Babylonian astrology/astronomy, planetary worship, Hindu mathematics, and ancient arab stone-worship - the arab tribes carried aerolites in the desert as good-luck charms...and the black stone in Mecca is still their most guarded relic of the worship of meteors, which seems to me to be the true arabic religion.
If you had made your fortune, built your future upon the backs of others as the arabs did, with mohammad as the 'prophet' would you not then discredit all that from which you stole? How else are you going to maintain the lie that all this is your own? Islam's hatred of the 'people of the book' and all other belief systems is nothing more or less than an attempt to destroy all the witnesses to a crime committed by a man they chose to name mohammad; a most successful arab thief.
Why does islam hate Christianity? Let's try to explain why that might be, by analogy. Remember, islam hates Jews first and foremost; every other religion or belief system qualifies for hatred by islam on a kind of sliding scale. Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, animist, pagan, what have you; all kuffar, all unclean, all infidel, all deserving of nothing but to be burned in hell, beheaded, arms and legs 'smited' - islam has allah's word on it.
Put your Colombo coat and hat on. The 'prophet' just might be a composite of every parasitic arab male who ever lived a nomad survival existence, who robbed, raped, pillaged and slaughtered for a 'living'- who stole not only people and turned them into slaves, but KNOWLEDGE!
The knowledge that is in the koran is obviously plagiarised from numerous sources, much incorrectly transcribed because it was orally transmitted. From Hebrew lore, from the ancients, including Babylonian astrology/astronomy, planetary worship, Hindu mathematics, and ancient arab stone-worship - the arab tribes carried aerolites in the desert as good-luck charms...and the black stone in Mecca is still their most guarded relic of the worship of meteors, which seems to me to be the true arabic religion.
If you had made your fortune, built your future upon the backs of others as the arabs did, with mohammad as the 'prophet' would you not then discredit all that from which you stole? How else are you going to maintain the lie that all this is your own? Islam's hatred of the 'people of the book' and all other belief systems is nothing more or less than an attempt to destroy all the witnesses to a crime committed by a man they chose to name mohammad; a most successful arab thief.
whoops! sorry about the double post..
Hey Fred, that info was so good, it doesn't hurt to read it twice!
Islam is a crime.
Muslims are required to remove all the witnesses.
>> You need to deflate that ego of yours a little, my friend, and stop taking things so personally. <<
Islam threatens Christians. Are you aware that a Coptic Christian family was threatened on the PalTak website? A couple of weeks later they ended up dead. The LEOs blamed some drug addicts and swept the whole thing under the rug.
Muslims have threatened Christians in the US saying they will behave the same here as they behave in the ME which is killing Christians with impunity. These threats are real. I do take these threats seriously and personally and will continue to do so.
>> Jan of Colorado suggested we "expose and destroy" Islam. Is that a responsible "solution"? <<
Muslims openly state they want to destroy Christianity and convert everyone to islam, by force if necessary. They are openly hostile. I am openly defensive. They have stated that they will kill us or die trying. I prefer they die trying if it comes down to it. Anger is not a sin, nor is self defense.
>> The reality is that there is one billion of them in this world and growing. <<
I don’t care how many of them there are. When they come here and threaten Americans I tend to get angry. They are not here to become Americans. They are here to convert America to islam and sharia law. Several FReepers have already received death threats for denouncing islam. The danger is real and it is now. If you don’t see the danger it’s because you choose to look the other way.
>> We have no control over it; genocide is not an option. <<
We do have control over it in the US if the suggestions I have put forth are followed. They are not extremely radical and will protect this country.
>> And this kind of "criticism" irritates you? <<
You have still not offered any suggestions and continue to discard other’s solutions.
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