Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism (Pope Bound for Hell).

Knoxville News-Sentinel Co. ^ | April 13, 2005 | JEANNINE F. HUNTER

[Dean Baker]

Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, hunter@knews.com April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.

[CrazyJoeDivola]

One of the main issues for conservatives is a perceived liberal slant in the religion departments of Belmont and Carson-Newman universities, two schools supported by the Tennessee Baptist Convention.

No sir You are exactly wrong about CN. You have nothing to substantiate your claim. The statement above is the best You can find? A blurb about perceived liberal slant? So you read a blurb in a paper and make up your mind in an instant that an institution is liberal. Is this the way your taught to think and come to conclusions at "your flagship seminary"? I spent 4 years at Carson-Newman, and even though I'm not an MDiv, I am an MBA and am more than qualified to draw my own conclusions from first hand experience, not from a generalized sentence that states perceptions of those with an agenda. You may have adequate biblical knowledge, and I applaud you for service to our Lord, but to simply state an unproven assumption about people whom you've never met is most un-Christlike.

There is not a professor in the CN religion department who believes in inclusivism, that there is an alternate path outside of Christ to the Kingdom of Heaven, that we are all God's children so we'll all be saved.

CN's mission Statement: (Is it the open intellectual inquiry, or deeper spiritual maturity that frightens You?)
Carson-Newman College offers a Christian, liberal arts education in an environment that encourages open intellectual inquiry and deeper spiritual maturity. Students receive a personalized education in small classes. Caring faculty and staff mentors get to know and nurture each student. We seek to instill Christian virtues in our students and inspire them to use their unique gifts for a lifetime of service.

The historic Baptist distinctives of religious liberty, personal responsibility and compassion for others create a welcoming community that fosters a sense of belonging. The cultural heritage and geographic beauty of the Appalachian region enriches the Carson-Newman experience, and the college contributes to the environmental preservation and economic development of this national treasure.

[Darkwolf]

Good point. Such zealots are a small (I imagine), vocal minority who seem to forget it's not about THEM but their god.

[latina4dubya]

i call myself "born again." and i am a former Catholic... i am now Protestant (non-denominational)... i know Catholics who are "born again"... i know people who call themselves Protestants who are not born again... there are some devout believers/Christ followers in Protestant churches as well as Catholic churches... and then there are those who are "Cahtolic in Name Only" as well as "Protestant in Name Only." it is sad when either side refuses to see the other as legitimate... (now, i'm not talking all religions here... i'm talking Christian religions.)

[Matchett-PI]

"The sanctification of the Blessed Virgin by St. Thomas Aquinas" ~ animoveritas

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1383745/posts?page=378#378

[DannyTN]

"Do you understand Repentance?"

Yes. Do you?

[TommyDale]

That may be true, but the Baptists have the right to state their own belief, right or wrong, just as every other religion does. In the end, God will decide.

[axlhuckleberry]

Yes. Interesting that the Reverand forgot about this scripture while judging people for calling someone other than God father.

I'm pretty used to it, being a homo and all. The whole idea of not judging others goes out the window when it comes to homosexuals.

At least you Catholics are getting a taste of evangelical rhetoric. Many evangelicals are equal opportunity judges of others.

[Chi-townChief]

The line that gets me is:

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

You'd think the boy would try to find another line of work.

[axlhuckleberry]

Just something I've been thinking about & thought I'd share

I'm glad that you did! Great post.

[Dean Baker]

If you'd posted this in the religion section rather than the news/activism

exactly

---

I see you're still trying to make this thread into something it is not, and call me something I am not.

But then again, from looking at all your posts on this thread, you seem to be enjoying it.

Trying to have it both ways?

LOL!

[D Edmund Joaquin]

No, being a Berean Baptist I'm just keeping an eye on you

[Dean Baker]

Well, keep keeping an eye on me. I've got nothing to hide. But your false accusations and attempts to brand me something I am not, are...Shall we say...A little less than Christian?

[ndkos]

Well no one should say that, because we cannot judge someone's soul now, and definately not in the future at the moment of death. They have just very misguided zeal.

That said, may I ask you if you are religious or Christian? What's keeping you from attending Church every Sunday?

[Barnacle]

You'd think the boy would try to find another line of work.

Exactly. The guy is so stupid he can't recognize the inherent contradiction of his statements. Let's not let the so-called Christians create bad blood between us.

My brother is a Protestant minister. I am a devout Catholic. He and I can discuss theology for hours with nothing but the love of Jesus between us.

[mugs99]

I was exposed to many religions and forms of them, including Islam. And of all the houses of worship I've been in, the Catholic Church is the one that makes me more comfortable and closer to God

"In my Father's house there are many mansions"
Too many who claim to be Christian ignore that truth. If the Catholic Church makes you feel closer to God, that's a good thing.
...

[DannyTN]

"Do you understand Repentance?"

Repentance is an agreement with God that sin is wrong and a willingness to turn from it. The person who is willing to accept Jesus as savior is already reached the point that they agree with God that they are a sinner and have need of a Savior.

However, Repentance is not being perfect. Paul, as a Christian, struggled to live the Christian life. He said, "I do that which I don't want to do. And I don't do that which I know I ought to do.".

The Christian finds help throught the Holy Spirit to overcome sin. The Holy Spirit works with that initial humility that brought the Christian to the point of salvation to eventually transform the Christian into the image of Christ. However, this is not a quick process. And frankly, I doubt anybody actually completes it in this life.

Thus the scriptures exhort us to:

2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Most new Christians don't have a clue just how sinful and different from the character of Christ they are. And it's often a long learning process that God takes us through to show us where sin continues to remain in us and to transform us into them image of Jesus. We won't be fully transformed until death or the rapture though, at which point we will see Jesus as he is, and we will put on the incorruptible.

1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

My grandfather was an alcoholic when he was saved. He didn't immediately stop being an alcoholic. It took him about 9 months, before he realized that if he continue hanging with the same crowd, he was going to continue to get drunk, and changed his ways. He wasn't saved when he stopped being an alcoholic. He was saved 9 months before that. It just took 9 months for the Holy Spirit to work the changes in his thinking and behavior that needed to occur to help him to overcome this particular sin.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

No, it's discernment. You posted a thread that led to Christian bashing, and you are new here. I'm still unsure why it wasn't pulled. However, please note, even though I suspect you, neither I, nor anyone else apparently, asked the mod to pull it. If I were to post an anti Pope thread, I don't believe it would last too long

[Anita1]

Re: "I've been told because I'm not Catholic I'm not part of the "true Church," which sounds pretty bad. So I was wondering where people think I might end up."

Your response:
"it doesnt matter what they think, only what you know"


Good point and -

Actually -

It is WHO you know -

that determine where you'll go!

He is the Key - He is the Way!

[D Edmund Joaquin]

yes good point; I was thinking of what he knows in his heart to be true

[Matchett-PI]

"the Catholic Church decided which books would become part of the canonical Bible"

False. God decided - in spite of the frantic flurry of activity in 1546 where Jerome was pressured to go against his better judgement and add literary writings (the Apocrypha)to Scripture.

Even though his conscience bothered him, like Pilate, he thought he could wash his hands of any personal guilt in the matter by saying, "What sin have I committed if I followed the judgment of the churches?"