Federal Hearing in Schiavo Case Over. No reinsertion order for Terri's feeding tube.

FOX News Channel ^

[farmer18th]

Do you think that post was thoughtful and mature,

People who are asleep tend to resent the voices of those waking them up, even if they are whispering.

[SeaBiscuit]

"It makes me wonder, with all the retirees down there, whether there isn't an industry of death behind these rulings"

My thoughts and fears as well. If this stands and Terri dies as a result, what new Pandora's Box have we opened.. I wouldn't want to be an incapacitated person susceptible to 'hearsay' on whether I live or die. Sad as it is, there are just too many devious and unscrupulous people that might take evil advantage of this precedent.

[cyncooper]

I agree with your first points, but your assumption (that hysterical edge again) that I was not familiar with these concepts is in error.

You then proceed to venture into more hysteria by your charge that the President seize Terri Schiavo and demand the impeachment of the judge.

[syriacus]

I did talk to a nurse friend, and she said Terri's death will be painless.If Terri feels no pain
and
Terri can't think,
then why is Michael Schiavo trying to put her out of her misery?

Thanks for the idea for the new tagline!!

[farmer18th]

You mistake urgency for hysteria. It doesn't contribute to "thoughtful" dialogue. The country very much needs to see a good scrap between the executive branch and the judiciary, and it needs to be settled in favor of the legislative--particularly at a time when the arrogant abuse of judicial power is in seen in such high relief.

[AFPhys]

I spoke to a couple people during the weekend, and completely changed their minds by educating them by citing facts such as those you just mentioned.

[cyncooper]

I'm sure we will both agree that the Senate better get their act together with getting President Bush's judicial nominees an up or down vote in order to get Constitutional judges seated, for the sake of our country.

[Spunky]

I realize that people like that are eventually going to die from the cancer but you said "Give me an example, please, of a circumstance in which it would be permissible to starve a person to death."

That is what I did. I gave you an example. They starved to death before the cancer took them and that was permissable.

[hellinahandcart]

Also, in your example, it was the patient himself refusing treatment. Not someone else refusing it for him.

[Sola Veritas]

"I would say you are "talking through your hat" when it comes to your knowledge of President Bush's actions here, but that that overstates how high to critique you by about half..."

Look. I have deep affection for President Bush and up till now have been an ardent supporter. The bottom line is he has done too little too late. He is responsible.

You can critique me if you want. However, you know nothing about me. The President's actions are a matter of record. I would be overjoyed to see him fix this, but I have lost faith in him. I have gone from being an admirer to just thinking he is better than the alternative. I voted FOR president Bush, not AGAINST Kerry. I have voted FOR him both times, because I trully believed we shared common values. I don't think this is the case anymore.

This is a turning point in American history. I chose to be on what will eventually be seen as the "right side." I wished the president would also.

[Earthdweller]

This seems to refute that she is a "vegtable" and needs a feeding tube to eat.

Here is another MD's report.

He tried to testify for her and was ignored.(William M. Hammesfahr, M.D.) It is basically his final conclusion of Terri's condition. I have left out parts because it is lengthy but I think you can get the jest.

If any one tries to tell you this MD is a quack like I have seen on other threads..ask yourself why our state reps/mds voted yes. Are they all quacks too? Impression:

The patient is not in coma.

She is alert and responsive to her environment.

She responds to specific people best.

She tries to please others by doing activities for which she gets verbal praise.

She responds negatively to poor tone of voice.

She responds to music.

She differentiates sounds from voices.

She differentiates specific people's voices from others.

She differentiates music from stray sound.

She attempts to verbalize.(!!!!!)

She has voluntary control over multiple extremities

She can swallow.(!!!!)

She is partially blind

She is probably aphasic and has a degree of receptive aphasia.

She can feel pain.

On this last point, it is interesting to observe that the records from Hospice show frequent medication administered for pain by staff.

With respect to specifics and specific recommendations in order to carry out the instructions of the Second District Court of Appeal:

From a neurological standpoint: The patient appears to be partially blind.

She needs a full opthamological (eye) evaluation and visual evoked potentials done to flash and checkerboard patters. The opthamological examination is to evaluate her retina and her ophthalmic nerve to try to determine the cause of her visual limitations and if any treatment exists. The evoked potentials looks at the nerve between the eye and the visual centers in the brain, to see if there is treatable damage and the type of damage, if any in these areas.

This is important, as for individuals to interact with her...

*snip*

Communication: She can communicate. She needs a Speech Therapist, Speech Pathologist, and a communications expert to evaluate how to best communicate with her and to allow her to communicate and for others to communicate with her.

Also, a treatment plan for how to develop better communication needs to be done.

*snip*

ENT: The patient can clearly swallow, and is able to swallow approximately 2 liters of water per day (the daily amount of saliva generated). Water is one of the most difficult things for people to swallow. It is unlikely that she currently needs the feeding tube.(!!!!!) She should be evaluated by an Ear Nose and Throat specialist, and have a new swallowing exam.

*snip*

Her physical exam and videotapes also suggest a spinal cord injury is also present, as she has much better control over he face, head, and neck, than over her arms and legs.

This reminds one of a person with a spinal cord injury who has good facial control, but poor use of arms and legs. It is possible that a correctable spinal abnormality such as a herniated disk may be found that could be treated and result in better neurological functioning. This should be looked for, as may be treatable.

Thus, there may be an injured disk or spinal cord; the disk injury is more treatable, the spinal cord injury, if present without a disk injury, may be more difficult to treat.

A person with a spinal cord injury and hypoxic encephalopathy will need different treatment and rehab recommendations than one who just has a hypoxic encephalopathic.

Interestingly, I have seen this pattern of mixed brain (cerebral) and spinal cord findings in a patient once before, a patient who was asphyxiated.

*snip*

____________________________ William M. Hammesfahr, M.D.

[BARLF]

That happened to my sister. No water, no food, oxcy contin(sp.?) and morphine.

[XR7]

"Euthanasia" Killings in Nazi Germany

(http://www.holocaust-trc.org/hndcp.htm)

Forced sterilization in Germany was the forerunner of the systematic killing of the mentally ill and the handicapped. In October 1939, Hitler himself initiated a decree which empowered physicians to grant a "mercy death" to "patients considered incurable according to the best available human judgment of their state of health." The intent of the so-called "euthanasia" program, however, was not to relieve the suffering...

[Republican Wildcat]

Previous rulings should have nothing to do with this case - the statute said the case is to be heard de bono.

[zot]

The decision in this case should have been simple. Her husband wants her to die. Her parents want her to live. Nobody knows what she wants. Regardless of how disabled she is, it hurts no one to give her to her parents and let them take care of her.

[AFPhys]

From what I have observed, Republicans up and down the slate have monolithically worked attempting to legally save Terri from starvation. They have worked within our legal and judicial system, and I desire that they continue to do so.

Democrats have been spotty: some have been on Terri's side, and some haven't.

I hope Terri's life can be restored into her parent's custody, but there is no sense in getting crazy about the failure of the Republicans, when there is more cause to be upset about the Democrats and their Pro-Death crowd, including the judiciary.

I believe you have only the best of intentions, but replacing with judicial tyranny with executive tyranny is not a wise move in this country. Are you suggesting that our President enlist a posse to ride in to take custody of her?

I've been a Terri supporter for many years now on FR, and these days are just as distressing for me as for you. I agree that these days are a turning point, however, it is worth recalling that nearly all the pubby legislators have been trying on Terri's behalf. It is better to train your anger on defeating the opposing side, not those who are working on behalf of your point of view - and if Terri ends up dying as a result of this fiasco, her death must be used as a rallying cry to defeat _them_, not to defeat those friendly to our side.

[supercat]

The decision in this case should have been simple. Her husband wants her to die. Her parents want her to live. Nobody knows what she wants. Regardless of how disabled she is, it hurts no one to give her to her parents and let them take care of her.

Actually, it hurts a lot of people. All of them very justly.

There's a lot of corruption in this case. If Terri lives, it will almost certainly be exposed. Only if she dies is there any hope of keeping it covered up, or at least 'contained'.

[Graymatter]

"I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'...'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink..."

[zot]

Actually, it hurts a lot of people. All of them very justly.

There's a lot of corruption in this case. If Terri lives, it will almost certainly be exposed. Only if she dies is there any hope of keeping it covered up, or at least 'contained'.

Excellent point. And I think the focal point of this corruption is the one who ordered her killed.

[YoungBlackRepublican]

Sad as it is, there are just too many devious and unscrupulous people that might take evil advantage of this precedent."


I think this is a point a lot of people are missing...people always assume the spouse is going to do what's in the best interest of their loved one but history has shown us it's not always that way....money, other lover etc...plenty of motives if you get my drift