Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

U.S. plans to act after 'careless' BA flight (FAA weighs steps over 747's long route w/1 engine out)
International Herald Tribune ^ | Tuesday, March 8, 2005 | Don Phillips

Posted on 03/07/2005 4:56:18 PM PST by Paleo Conservative

WASHINGTON Federal Aviation Administration officials said on Monday that they were preparing to take strong action against British Airways, including a charge of "careless and reckless operation of an aircraft," because of the airline's decision to allow a Boeing 747 to fly from California to England with one engine inoperable. Under normal circumstances, the United States would not take action against British Airways because such issues would be handled by Britain.

But senior U.S. aviation officials have become so concerned about the actions of the flight crew and its supervisors in London that they were preparing direct action.

"We will pursue every legal option available to us," said an FAA spokeswoman, Laura Brown.

British Airways expressed surprise over the developments.

"I am surprised that anyone at the FAA would make such statements," said Steve Shelterline, general manager for the 747 program with British Airways.

(Excerpt) Read more at iht.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; US: California; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: 747; 747400; aviation; boeing; britishairways; etops; faa; lax
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 181 next last
To: COEXERJ145

I think airlines should buy the 777 over the A340. The 777 is much better.


41 posted on 03/07/2005 5:41:26 PM PST by wk4bush2004
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Spktyr
"The Airbus design philosophy is "pilots are all idiots"

See it here:
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/Airbus320_trees.mpg

42 posted on 03/07/2005 5:41:28 PM PST by drc43 (We have 4 years left to get it right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Spktyr

From what I understand, the Airbus is a "fly-by-wire" aircraft. There is no direct pilot cable control of moveable wing and tail surfaces. The computer flies it. No computer, no control.


43 posted on 03/07/2005 5:41:33 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative

Don't they fly a great circle route? I don't think that would take them across the US.


44 posted on 03/07/2005 5:41:34 PM PST by FreePaul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: jpsb
The next day that same plane flew to India on three engines.

Do you have a reference to that? The IHT article says that the plane flew from Singapore six days later. And he was several hours into the flight already. What should he have done with a single engine out over Afghanistan? Land at Kabul for repairs?

46 posted on 03/07/2005 5:43:05 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: drc43

href=http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/Airbus320_trees.mpg


47 posted on 03/07/2005 5:44:19 PM PST by drc43 (We have 4 years left to get it right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: AGreatPer

I don't know how severe the manuver was, but something on the order of "hard banks to evade SAM missile" is evidently not possible for an Airbus.


48 posted on 03/07/2005 5:44:49 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls

Just what I read in 29.


49 posted on 03/07/2005 5:47:17 PM PST by jpsb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

How is crossing the Atlantic with three engines (a 747 with one out) any less safe than crossing the Atlantic with two engines (on a two-engine A310 or 777)?


50 posted on 03/07/2005 5:47:24 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
We could take half the structural members out of a building and it will still stand.

One could probably take out half the studs in a typical residential wall without affecting the structural integrity of the building; the requrement of having studs every 16" is to allow people to lean on walls without them bending--not because it's necessary to support the weight of the roof or upper floors.

On the other hand, most buildings have many single-point entities whose failure would cause a significant partial or total collapse. Bridges are even worse: a failure of one of the main cables on a suspension bridge could topple the whole thing. Of course, most of the single-point-failure items are rated to withstand loads sufficiently in excess of the loads they'll face that failure is unlikely.

51 posted on 03/07/2005 5:48:04 PM PST by supercat (For Florida officials to be free of the Albatross, they should let it fly away.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls

Didn't the FAA give Boeing a hard time over the two engine 777, extra rigorious testing etc? I recall reading something along those lines.


52 posted on 03/07/2005 5:50:30 PM PST by jpsb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: FreePaul
Don't they fly a great circle route?

Yes they did. Here's a link to a map showing their route. Notice the light circles. Those show the radius for airfields capable of handling a 747 within 60 minutes flying time. At no time in the whole route was he ever less than an hour away from the nearest airport.

53 posted on 03/07/2005 5:50:56 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: jpsb
Just what I read in 29.

It doesn't appear to be true.

54 posted on 03/07/2005 5:51:38 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls
How is crossing the Atlantic with three engines (a 747 with one out) any less safe than crossing the Atlantic with two engines (on a two-engine A310 or 777)?

What would be the range of the aircraft if it lost another engine on the same side? Three-engine aircraft can operate on any two, but I would expect a 4-engine aircraft to be problematic at best with two same-side engines; even the case of flying with near-left and far-right or vice versa would seem difficult (there's not a whole lot of extra thrust, and some would have to be wasted to keep things balanced).

55 posted on 03/07/2005 5:52:06 PM PST by supercat (For Florida officials to be free of the Albatross, they should let it fly away.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls
Check out some of the discussion here.

You are much less safe flying over blue water with only three engines, because you can't climb to proper cruising altitude and so burn more fuel. Which is exactly what happened - the plane barely made it to Manchester.

Another aspect of the story that seems left out is that the decision to fly on saved British Airways over $200k in compensation they would have been required to pay. What a coincidence - the compensation regs come into force on 1 March and suddenly BA allows its planes to fly minus one engine.

Fly Boeing. But don't fly BA.

56 posted on 03/07/2005 5:56:13 PM PST by John Locke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative
The International Herald Tribune is the New York Times European paper, but it only allows excerpts unlike the New York Times

The IHT was part of the Washington Post family at the time of the WP/LATimes settlement with FR.

57 posted on 03/07/2005 5:56:34 PM PST by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: toddst

A few weeks ago I listened as an airline captain explained why some large planes had two engines and some had four. He said if you lose an engine on a four engine plane, it's not even an emergency. You simple continue on to your destination.


58 posted on 03/07/2005 5:57:25 PM PST by MRadtke (NOT the baseball player)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: supercat
What would be the range of the aircraft if it lost another engine on the same side? Three-engine aircraft can operate on any two, but I would expect a 4-engine aircraft to be problematic at best with two same-side engines; even the case of flying with near-left and far-right or vice versa would seem difficult (there's not a whole lot of extra thrust, and some would have to be wasted to keep things balanced).

Read it again. The A310 and 777 are not three-engine aircraft -- they are two-engine aircraft and thousands of them cross the Atlantic every day. Are you worried about asymmetrical thrust on one of those after losing an engine?

59 posted on 03/07/2005 5:59:01 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: ab01

My father also was a 747 Capt. in the 1980's.

He lost 2 engines on takeoff,almost simultaneously, out of Narita. Dumped a lot of fuel (25 min.) into the sea.

Said it was very un-nerving trying to fly (near max.) 800,000 lbs. on two engines.


60 posted on 03/07/2005 6:00:03 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Open borders=National suicide)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 181 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson