Posted on 02/13/2005 2:00:25 AM PST by The_Liberal Person
A liberal - To the Republican community.
1. What are your goals as Republicans?
2. Is your goal to make Liberals to leave America?
3. If you want us to stay, when does this country go too far to the right?
4. If you want us to leave, will the US government pay for our plane tickets?
I think you meant Gubmint. LOL
Thats how the killer bees got started. Some of them escaped and now look at the mess. Also I think AIDS was a government expierment that got out of hand. Better rethink that one. LOL
Thats true but right now they think this country is s--t. When they get to their utopian paradise and find it is s--t, they will want to run back here and turn this country to s--t again. They won't admit they were wrong.
That, is a two way street The_Liberal Person. Liberals, as a rule don't listen to us, and even call us all sorts of rude names. We have been putting up with this childishness from the political left in country for a long time now (pretty much all my adult life, and I'm rapidly nearing 50). We have been called evil, Nazis, heartless, cold, uncaring, et cetera, ad inifinitum et ad nauseum.
Even to this day, we face this constant onslaught of invective from your fellows, and you have the temerity, the unmitigated gall, to complain that those whom have been marginalized, demonized, and slandered for so long have decided to be less than civil in return? Actions have consequences, and the consequences of the political lefts constant imbibing of a cocktail consisting of one part unbridled arrogance, mixed in equal measure with one part abysmal ignorance, are, and by right, should be severe...
the infowarrior
The answer to that question, would lie in whether or not you are chained to zero-sum theory, or if you can envision that economies are in reality, not zero-sum. So, my counter-question is this...
Are you willing to at least look at the possibility that a nation cannot ever tax itself into prosperity, rather than reduce taxes across the board, to achieve a vibrant economy, and still garner such tax revenues as would be sufficient for legitimate government purposes?
the infowarrior
1. What are your goals as Republicans?
To once and for all politically marginalize the dangerous political ideals of communism and facism, even though they change their name every few years. To end the practice of moral relativsim as an argument for justifying inhuman and unconscionable behavior. To ensure that elected officials have integrity and are held accountable for their words and actions, and those that say one thing and do another are removed from office. To ensure that the constituion of the United States is not gutted by activist and leftist judges, where those that cannot win the debate of ideas attempt to undermine our nation. To ensure the supreme court recognizes and protects the constitution as the highest law of the land, and does not go to foreign nations rulings to justify its own. To end the lefts multigenerational slavery by reducing the hope stealing dogma that creates and retains a dependency class suckling on the production of others, because some bleeding heart has lied to them so much they honestly believe they are incapable of standing on their own. To end the liberal lunacy of granted self esteem without requiring it be earned by effort. To ensure education is about education, not indoctrinization or socialization. To ensure those that violate the laws of society are held accountable for their actions, and troglodytes that attempt to blame society for individuals actions be laughed from the public square like the fools they are.
2. Is your goal to make Liberals to leave America?
No, but if your goal is to turn the US into a secular socialist democracy like most of western europe, or a communist nation like Cuba... I'll fight you every step of the way, and I won't shed a tear if you leave.
3. If you want us to stay, when does this country go too far to the right?
"too far to the right"? You are joking right? In case you have missed history.. obviously you have. Please show me one instance where any nation has gone too far to the right. The left side of the political isle are things like totalitarianism, communism, socialism.. these are repressive regimes in which individuals have absolutely no rights. On the right side, taken to its extremes you wind up with anarchy (I know, you can't comprehend that.. but its true.. and its funny since a subset of your leftist groups argue for anarchy). The very idea that you think that because people are free to pray at football games or graduation ceremonies... or that the boy scouts not allowing homosexuals easy access to teen boys is taking this nation "too far to the right" shows how out of touch with the middle (and often reality) the left has become.
4. If you want us to leave, will the US government pay for our plane tickets?
You are kidding right? Oh wait, I forgot you are a liberal so you can't get past entitlement can you? No one is going to pay for your ticket... its not the government or societies responsibility to give you what you want. You wish to leave the country and live in a secular socialist democracy, get a job save your money and then pick which nanny state you want to spend the rest of your life in and buy your ticket to get there.
If you want to leave, keep the hell away from my country Canada. People like you are not wanted here.
Now you're talkin'!
I have a potential solution. How about we allow states to opt out of social programs and allow other states to keep paying high taxes and keep living with social programs?
Why should this be a federal issue? Why not let it be a state issue?
First of all, I have no issue if one state wishes to be a nanny state... that is that's states perogative. However like it or not, money to fund these programs is rarely if ever fully funded by the states budgets, all you have to do is look at the numbers to realize this.
I am more than willing to let it be state driven and funded... let any blue state out there, go for it. New York decides every person regardless of how lazy, drunk or drug addicted, no matter how even though of able body and mind is unwilling to go out and earn their daily bread and its the state's responsibility to house, feed, and care for their every need from cradle to grave.. please go for it.
Of course when you find out this rewarding of entitlement encourages more entitlement and those who desire it to move there, further dragging down the system.. and as the payers too vote with their feet to move to other places where they are not hit with punative taxation to fund such things... don't cry to the fed to bail you out.
NYC itself did most of what I just said, and collapsed the city because of liberal "good intentions"... and of course came to the Fed for bailout. Detroit is in the same situation now... its fundamental economics changed over 20 years ago, and they still due to entitlement mentality not changed underlying structures of entitlement socialist mentality... Pittsburgh too, while not as extreme as the other two examples as well faces the same issue(s).
The fact is the social safetynet is a combination of hammock and shackles for many folks involved in it. A social "safety net" would not create multi-generational poverty.. such as the "war on poverty" has done.
I have no issue helping those who truly need, and those who are unable because they lack the true ability to care for themselves. Though it may be cliche for the left to argue that the right does not care, nothing could be further from the truth. We care enough to tell folks that are able to do it on their own, NO. Only the weak always tell them yes.. and enable their self destructiveness. Its rarely easy, its never fun, but it is what needs to be done at times.
The fact is there is a huge difference between being broke and being poor. The war on poverty creates the poverty mentality... or the truly poor! Lack of funds just makes one broke... poor is a state of mind, and its a state of mind that the bleeding hearts have encouraged folks to become slave to.
There is no faster way to poverty than to become a single mom... yet to criticize a section of americans who continue to behave irresponsibly for those actions is called "racist" by bleeding hearts... so much so that they have brainwashed those living in this lifestyle that to actually attempt to improve your life by solid principles that pre date the industrial revolution and the formation of this country and even the discovery of this continent... is somehow betraying their race.
I am all for getting the fed out of grandios social programs... a very basic safety net, and let the states go from there, is fine by me. Of course, I don't expect it to happen in my lifetime.
Ok we agree on something. I suggest that we progressives and liberals (blue states) set it up so that we fund our social programs through some sort of union. I think we should give red states the ability to opt in or opt out each year. If they opt in for the year then taxes will be higher but there will be money for social programs. If you opt out then taxes will be lower and in these states there will be no social programs.
When its set up like this it restores stability to America in that we wont need to have a culture war anymore. The wars will be local not federal. We'll finally be able to co-exist.
If you agree with this idea please spread it around the conservative community and I will spread it around the progressive community. I think this is the only way it can work because its going to be impossible for either side to force its culture and or way of life on each other. I don't want to give up my social programs, you don't want to pay for them them. Fair enough. Let's let the blue states pay for the blue social programs.
Then both sides can sit back and see which form of government works best.
While I have no issues with the funding proposal you have put forth (although knowingly there is no way it will happen.. that's just political reality) To say that this will end the debate is naive.
The culture war will continue to wage on, though honestly it is in its waining years IMHO.
Because the problem isn't simply state level. Even if the funding issue should be resolved, it would not end the fight. Because battles at the state level would invariably wind up in Federal Court, and those rulings will affect everyone, red and blue.
Abortion isn't any less the stopping of a beating heart, because it happened in Albany than if it happened in Montgomery. If you think simply changing the funding will stop the roll back of the 60s radicalism in american culture, you aren't paying attention.
I don't hate liberals, in fact there are some I admire greatly. Unfortunately though these liberals are not what generally passes as liberals today. Today's "liberals or progressives" are generally nothing more than secular socialists and communists badging themselves a little differently.
If you want the culture war to end, you have to come to accept some fundamental truths, and sadly these truths are not accepted, particularly by a very vocal segment of the "progressive" left.
1) America is not an "Empire" evil or otherwise, this is the greatest nation that has ever existed on this planet. We have literally and figuratively liberated the world. Our dead are buried on every continent and in every ocean because of the fact we stand for liberation, not opression, and we are hated by the forced of tyranny around the world because of it. Is America without fault? Of course not, no organization of men can every be.. however those who wish to frame the debate on her failings rather than her successes are not folks who can ever be trusted with the responsibility of power.
2) Religion in public life is not oppressive or a threat to anyone's "right" not to believe. If you are offended because someone can actually show appreciation and respect for a creator.. that is your problem not theirs. There is no seperation of church and state... and forced Aethiesm in the public square is a complete violation of the 1st ammendment.
3) As the declaration of independence states, we are endowed with certain inalienable rights, Life, Liberty and the PERSUIT of happiness. Life is listed first for a reason, and the believe that life is nothing more than a choice is not an acceptable stand to any nation that claims liberty and freedom as their mantra.
4) Being offended does mean you have had any civil right trampled. In a free society people are going to be offended, its just the way it is. Get a backbone and get over yourself.
5) If you wish to desire to effect change in our system, do so at the ballot box. Stop relying on judicial activism to accomplish goals you cannot win in the marketplace of ideas.
The culture war is more than just funding of programs, though that may be a first step.... However while a group is out there regurgitating the same old tired hack kneed hogwash that the Communists propogated 40 and 60 years ago regarding current events and situations.... it doesn't seem like at least some of the left is willing to accept the 1st principle.. and without that, we don't even have a common foundation to even think of further talks.
Ah, I see where we differ now. I know a lot of average, run of the mill, every day liberals, and they're nothing like the denziens of DU. When I speak of liberals I'm speaking about the more mundane sort you're apt to run into at the grocery store.
Ok. I see the difference. I know most Democrats are not like DU. They are terribly misguided all the same, though. But I don't believe most Dems would aid and abet the enemy.
Were you the last person picked for the kick ball team in grade school? Do you wish to change that by prohibiting picking teams, not allowing any winners due to the damaged ego and having beauty pageants where everyone is a winner? Tell me what socialism has contributed to the general welfare of the world over Capitalism?
I don't want welfare. I want liveable wages so anyone who is willing to work hard can live off their job and not welfare, social programs or the government. Are you going for or against this?
I'm not trying to troll I'm asking a legit question. What is the conservative viewpoint on living wages? If you want more information on it look here http://livingwagecampaign.org/
If both sides could support something like this then you can get rid of social programs because people won't need them.
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